MECHANICAL PEGHEAD

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MECHANICAL PEGHEAD

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VICTOR1

Posts: 50
Joined: Jan. 1 2013

MECHANICAL PEGHEAD

Does any one know were to get flamenco guitar mechanical peghead tuners ?

Thank you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 0:55:24

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

http://www.pegheds.com
Just call or email this guy, Chuck Herin, he's very nice and quick to respond.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 2:42:15

VICTOR1

Posts: 50
Joined: Jan. 1 2013

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Leñador)

THANK YOU

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 3:47:39

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

You might be interested in these old posts

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=278549&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#278549

I couldn't obtain any decent machine pegs at that time, so I hope you have better luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 6:18:05

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

I just got three sets from Chuck, he has plenty of the model 945D which are excellent for flamenco guitars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 6:36:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Is the 945D the 9mm peghed that looks like elephant legs?

I just find that they are way to thick and so avoid using them. The guitars look very chunky and heavy with these pegs and not light and elegant as their wooden peg sisters they try to look like.
I finished a guitar with my last set of 8mm Ramirez pegs a little year ago and havent found any way to get them since then.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 6:52:48

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

elephant legs

Well slimmer real pegs work so much better for precise tuning so fat is not a good look for imitation.

Well-fitted real pegs work brilliantly for me - are they going out of fashion?

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 9:36:06

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Lot's of newer players are afraid of wood pegs these days. I hear fear of pegs a lot.

The 9mm pegs are ....well 1mm bigger than the 8 mm pegs, It's not like the carefully ratio-ed stone columns of the Parthenon or an Egyptian obelisk where proportion really counts.

If Chuck makes another run of the 8mm I will buy them again, but for now I am more than happy to have the 9's.nFat pegs are relative. if you are a violinist they look fat, if you are a cellist they look normal.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 11:58:24

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

quote:

if you are a violinist they look fat, if you are a cellist they look normal.

That was not fair Stephen.

I actually compared them with wooden GUITAR pegs and I compared pegheds 8 and 9mm. Honestly, I believe violins, violas and cellos are off-topic here. (even though they are beatifull and wonderfull instruments.)
I have used both 8 - 9mm in the past and my personal opinion is that where 8mm is acceptabel 9mm looks wrong, fat and heavy to my eyes.
I make my wooden GUITAR pegs around 6.5mm at the end, which means around 7mm where they enter the headstock (in order to compare looks with pegheds)

I hope Chuck makes a batch of 8mm pegheds again. Because untill then I wont buy any. If someone wants 9mm peghed, I will install them if they send them to me, but I will say what I mean.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 12:30:01

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Anders this reminds me too much of a woman dragging me to the clothing store to try on jeans.

When she emerges from behind the curtain and says "Do these Pegheds make my ass look fat?" There is only one answer a guy can give.

"No sweetie those pegheds look great on your ass, they are not fat at all."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 13:03:08

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

Well-fitted real pegs work brilliantly for me - are they going out of fashion?

Its just that flamenco is going out of fashion. All of the great maestros have used real pegs, without problems. Pegheds are a solution to a problem which does not exists, a solution for nerds.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 15:26:58

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Many great maestros have used machine heads too, why no hating on them? The demand for them seems simple, "I like the look of pegs but I want more than a 1:1 gear ratio for tuning".
Full disclosure, I'm one of the peghed sets Stephen bought. I just don't want a 1:1 gear ratio.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 15:56:01

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

quote:

Its just that flamenco is going out of fashion. All of the great maestros have used real pegs, without problems. Pegheds are a solution to a problem which does not exists, a solution for nerds.

So how many guitars with geared pegs have you tried. You must have tried at least some in order to get to these conclusions and as Leñador says most of these maestros later on in their carreer turned away from wooden pegs and started using machine heads. Why is that... Is it because they stopped being flamenco? If thats the case, visit old-school-flamencoforum.
"flamenco stopped being fashion and later on died when they started using these horrible machine heads"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 21:09:10

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I just don't want a 1:1 gear ratio.

If you are a real peghead enthusiast (for whatever reason) 1:1 ratio is not the important issue. The thinner the peg at the point where the strings are attached the less string you wind on for a given amount of turn. If you find this difficult try imagining big and small extreme cases or even dredge up the formula for the circumference of a circle. Some Luthiers understand and use this this to make a modest gain in functionality - Manuel Bellido for one and Anders as well I think.

I presume that part of the point of the mechanical pegs is to make them look like traditional pegs. Making them look like fat traditional pegs makes them also look like the kind of pegs that I would avoid - but perhaps I am alone?

There are also plenty of ill-fitting pegs that give them a bad name.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 21:41:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

quote:

The thinner the peg at the point where the strings are attached the less string you wind on for a given amount of turn.

Certainly makes sense although;
A 7mm diameter peg would have a circumference of 21.99mm meaning a quarter revolution would pull 5.49mm of string.
A 9mm peghed would have a circumference of 28.27 meaning a quarter revolution of the peg itself would be 7.06mm divided by 4 for the 1:4 ratio would be 1.76mm of string being pulled.
Still a lot less than a thin peg, and for me, I'm very lazy and I hate tuning and the different gear ratios on my machine heads are even noticeable to me. So I'll gladly give up a bit of looks to have a fat peg that's easier than a thin one that's harder.
In the end I suppose it's all the individuals tolerances and the form over function balancing act. We all pick our sides.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2016 22:02:57

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Arguing over the difference between tuners, pegs and pegsheds is a total 'non starter' for me. I'm thankful we have each style of tuner to choose from.

There are worse things happening in the world than the 8 mm peg tragedy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2016 1:01:24

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

quote:

Arguing over the difference between tuners, pegs and pegsheds is a total 'non starter' for me. I'm thankful we have each style of tuner to choose from.

There are worse things happening in the world than the 8 mm peg tragedy.

Yes, but then we could just pack out goodies, not write anything anymore and leave this place. There are many way more interesting things to do than read what you and I write. :-)

I like wooden pegs and I like mechanical pegs. I would just like to know if those who have anything against mechanical pegs have actually tried them??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2016 7:41:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

Arguing over the difference between tuners, pegs and pegsheds is a total 'non starter' for me. I'm thankful we have each style of tuner to choose from.

There are worse things happening in the world than the 8 mm peg tragedy.

Yes, but then we could just pack out goodies, not write anything anymore and leave this place. There are many way more interesting things to do than read what you and I write. :-)

I like wooden pegs and I like mechanical pegs. I would just like to know if those who have anything against mechanical pegs have actually tried them??

I have tried them on several guitars in the last couple of years. They suck, almost as bad as real pegs. Machines are great until the gear strips an hour before curtain, when you suddenly wish to God you had chosen the peghead guitar 18 years earlier when the choice was on the table.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2016 10:57:51

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Ricardo)

My '67 Ramirez blanca came with pegs. Ramirez used what looked like rosewood instead of ebony. Eventually the pegs would get out of round and be a pain in the butt. They could be shaved back round and work OK for a while, then they would go bad again.

I got tired of them. One year when I stopped off in San Francisco on the way from the Central Pacific to Texas, I asked Kenny Hill to put on machines. He or his workers did a nice job, and I have been happier ever since. I didn't stop being flamenco, perhaps because I never really was in the first place.

The best pegs I ever used were the ebony ones on a blanca made by the great Mexico City luthier Juan Pimentel. One of my best friends had that guitar for years. and the pegs were a pleasure to use.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2016 19:42:19

mt1007

Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

I have a 93 Devoe blanca with pegs and a 1970 Ramirez blanca with Pegheds.

The Devoe pegs work flawless; I can fine tune my guitar relatively easy. The only time I might worry about the pegs is when working in tablaos. Accidental bumps, humidity and temp levels can change tuning quickly though. Mainly the thing I deal with on stage and pegs is cejilla changes. Moving the cejilla around and tuning quick and on the spot and not letting the show or energy of show die are hard to manage.

The Ramirez’s pegs also work flawlessly. Easy to tune at home and on the stage, also no worrying or stressing if bumped or cejilla changes. Can tune on the fly and fast. Like Richard Jernigan, I too had the original rosewood pegs. They were the worse to tune, could not work with that guitar at home, and can’t even imagine that guitar on stage with the OG pegs. The peg holes on the headstock had also expanded with all the wear and tear over so many years of usage. The guitar was a perfect candidate for Pegheds.

When I compare the traditional pegs to Pegheds the only differences I can tangibly feel and see are that the Pegheds are slightly wider and a tad heavier but I’m talking about a very small difference.

My personal preference is a good working ebony peg, they keep the guitar at feather weight, I think they do somehow make the guitar sound different and I love that old school vibe. Pegheds are awesome and I might switch to them as I get older or if I ever get some form of arthritis.

I guess it really boils down to application and preference but they are both great when functioning properly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2016 18:08:51

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I make my wooden GUITAR pegs around 6.5mm at the end, which means around 7mm where they enter the headstock (in order to compare looks with pegheds

Aaron Green uses a viola peg turned to 6mm at the veneer head. Similar to what you are doing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 20 2016 21:53:33

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to mt1007)

I had a Ramirez guitar with rosewood pegs built in the late 60's. When I started building guitars I decided that I never wanted my pegs to work as poorly as the Ramirez so I designed some pegs based on violin pegs but slightly larger and had them made of ebony in the Philippines. They were beautifully crafted and remarkably cheap (I don't remember how many we had made but it filled a large pasteboard box). After almost 50 years we still have about 6-7 sets and they are still better than anything I've found from any other vendors. We have never had any complaints from our customers about peg head guitars and I always had pegs on my personal guitars. A flamenco guitar with traditional ebony pegs just seems like the right choice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2016 0:39:39

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to VICTOR1)

Para los gustos los colores.

So I will allow myself to make a very intelligent sum-up of this thread:

*Wooden pegs work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

*Mechanical pegs like pegheds work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

* Machine heads work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

*Any of the above mentioned tuning devices work improperly if they are NOT installed properly and you havent learned how to use them correctly!

I will accept nominations for the nobel peace price.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2016 11:07:37

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: MECHANICAL PEGHEAD (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

So I will allow myself to make a very intelligent sum-up of this thread:

*Wooden pegs work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

*Mechanical pegs like pegheds work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

* Machine heads work really well if installed properly and you learn how to use them correctly!

*Any of the above mentioned tuning devices work improperly if they are NOT installed properly and you havent learned how to use them correctly!

Yes, I agree with all the above.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2016 17:48:45