Help, my guitar is not the same after Internal Mic Job

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aiwanoe

Posts: 5
Joined: Dec. 16 2015

Help, my guitar is not the same afte...

Hi guys,

I just bought and got installed by a luthier an LR Baggs Lyric Classical mic in my flamenco guitar.

It's a stick-on internal mic and needed a whole to be drilled on the side which has been done nicely by the luthier.

The mic sounds good for what it is and it's a great compromise to avoid feedback in loud environments.

The problem is...my guitar DOESN"T SOUND THE SAME!!!

It was a beautifully resonating guitar, a handmade Casa Ferrer from Granada, and now many notes sound slightly damped and some produce a, very subtle, but very annoying noisy vibration.

Have I ruined a good guitar? Shall I take out the mic and rely on my external DDR 4099 which is great but it's hard to handle in loud gigs?

Could it be that the stickers used to fit the wires stop the top from resonating the right way?

Any advice is greatly apreciated

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 14:52:36

NewPlayer

Posts: 141
Joined: Nov. 29 2012
From: San Francisco

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

That's bad news! I always assumed that installing any type of electronics would alter the sound of an acoustic instrument, especially with the battery pack, pickup and wires.

On a different note, how does the mic compare to other undersaddle transducers? mics? etc? Is there enough gain?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 15:06:07

aiwanoe

Posts: 5
Joined: Dec. 16 2015

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to NewPlayer)

it sounds good enough, it's not as good as an external condenser mic (I have a DDR 4099) and not as bad as a transducer.

I haven't tried them together yet.

It's got plenty of gain before feedback and still a natural sound, but it's a compromise.

Nevertheless, sometimes when using external condenser mics I just have a terrible sound on stage because the sound guy has to turn me down to prevent feedbacks so...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 15:20:20

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

The most annoying thing about installing any internal mic system is making sure that all the wires aren't vibrating against anything... that would be my first suggestion, use the little sticky clips and make sure all the wires are anchored to a side and without too much slack.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 15:33:57

aiwanoe

Posts: 5
Joined: Dec. 16 2015

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

thanks Andy, I'm sure it's something like that.

It almost sounds slightly "distorted" on some notes. It's really disturbing.

The thing is that on some other notes I also seem to hear less resonation or "bad" resonation (weird rhythmic pattern of the harmonics), while the guitar was a pure delight before I took it to the luthier.

I'll bring it back to the guy to see if he can do something but I'm scared that it could have been a bad idea in the first place to fit an internal mic on this beautiful guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 16:15:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aiwanoe

thanks Andy, I'm sure it's something like that.

It almost sounds slightly "distorted" on some notes. It's really disturbing.

The thing is that on some other notes I also seem to hear less resonation or "bad" resonation (weird rhythmic pattern of the harmonics), while the guitar was a pure delight before I took it to the luthier.

I'll bring it back to the guy to see if he can do something but I'm scared that it could have been a bad idea in the first place to fit an internal mic on this beautiful guitar.

It's a compromise to do such work on a nice guitar, I understand why you would feel the need to do it as someone playing out often. You can check yourself by taking a free hand and while the right hand produces buzzing with open string(s), feel around all over the guitar, inside and out to try to locate the source of the buzz and "wolf" note. IF it is not a normal open string note, tune a string closest to the same note. Sometimes the clips they use to secure wires are THEMSELVES a source for buzzing. Could also be the jack that was drilled has a loose nut or something, or an un glued brace due to the installation ... so many factors.

Worse comes to worse you can preserve the original guitar buy removing everything and filling the jack hole. (On a negra it's less noticeable than on a Blanca). Iif it turns out to be the case you have to change the guitar back, I recommend the Shure Beta 87A. Just cut some bass and put it pretty close to the sound hole and you can get a big full loud sound as DPA with less bleed (and resultant feedback in my experience) at same volume levels.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 16:34:15

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

I suggest waiting and playing it.

I realize that what I am about to describe is different, but I think the principle may be the same:

The first time I used a "sound port"--that is, an extra sound hole about an 4 cm in diameter on the (bass) side near the neck--I had added it to a guitar that I had played for years without one. At first it sounded so different to me that I thought I had ruined the guitar, one of my favorites. But I kept playing it and eventually it stopped sounding strange to me.

_____________________________

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www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 16:34:52

aiwanoe

Posts: 5
Joined: Dec. 16 2015

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

It's a compromise to do such work on a nice guitar, I understand why you would feel the need to do it as someone playing out often. You can check yourself by taking a free hand and while the right hand produces buzzing with open string(s), feel around all over the guitar, inside and out to try to locate the source of the buzz and "wolf" note. IF it is not a normal open string note, tune a string closest to the same note. Sometimes the clips they use to secure wires are THEMSELVES a source for buzzing. Could also be the jack that was drilled has a loose nut or something, or an un glued brace due to the installation ... so many factors.

Thanks Ricardo I'll definitely try that, I hadn't thought about tuning the open string so as to have a free hand!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 17:03:16

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

I had the same distorted thing on the LR Baggs install I did myself and it turned out to be the input jack not being tightened as well as it should've. It's hard to get a tool in there to get it nice and tight. All has been well now for a couple years. Try pressing the jack and playing strings.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 17:15:42

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

It's hard to get a tool in there to get it nice and tight.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 17:22:22

aiwanoe

Posts: 5
Joined: Dec. 16 2015

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

I had the same distorted thing on the LR Baggs install I did myself and it turned out to be the input jack not being tightened as well as it should've. It's hard to get a tool in there to get it nice and tight. All has been well now for a couple years. Try pressing the jack and playing strings.

Wow I think you are right! I managed to play the note and put my ear on the jack and it's definitely coming from around there...I was expecting that having taken the guitar to a luthier things like this could have been avoided. But I feel much better now that hopefully you helped me at spotting the problem. Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 17:24:23

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

Nice! So take it back to him and make him do it OR if you up to it.
Unscrew the cap of the input jack and lock a small socket wrench around the nut. Then find the smallest plyers you can and reach in the guitar and tighten it as much as you can. It's really awkward and difficult.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 17:55:17

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

constructordeguitarras ............
Are you saying the sound of the guitar changed after a time ......

... or ..

........by continual listening your brain got used to what you thought was an inferior sound and finally accepted it as ok ..

??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2015 22:20:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to El Kiko)

Ah, good question!

I think it was I that changed. I think I was noticing the difference so well at first that I wasn't really hearing how good it sounded; only the difference. Then after a while I forgot about the original sound and started to appreciate the new sound.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2015 0:00:49

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Help, my guitar is not the same ... (in reply to aiwanoe)

Thats a good example on the brain being to active when playing music. We all have it when testing a new instrument, we are thinking so much that the brain takes over and we dont get the input from our senses.
A few musicians are not like that. They just disappear into their music world when they get an instrument in their hands that they like. Often they wont be able to tell you why they like it and their expressions while playing the instrument will tell you 1000 more than their words.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2015 8:07:59