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I think I joined the foro back in 2009 or so, not sure exactly. At the time it was such a busy place with really interesting conversations & more importantly, uploads happening several times a day. I have to admit I don't frequent the foro as much nowadays mostly because I was always mostly interested in listening to other players and there seems to be less of that now. Fair play to Juan for always putting up stuff in the swap shop. Anyway, I'm sure you all remember how fun and educational it was to have Jason McG here. I know something happened but never cared enough for the drama to actually know what that something was. Florian was great too, he brought huge enthusiasm. Others like Todd, Doit (innovative guitar upgrade aside ), John O etc don't seem to be around much anymore. Personally I'd like to see the place gain back some of the enthusiasm and sharing of uploads/playing etc over the increasing quantity of Off-Topic posts that seem to be showing up. No offense intended to anyone. Just interested in your thoughts Regards, John
I've noticed the same thing, and it is a little sad. I guess most the prolific old posters have moved on and not as many have to come to take their place.
On another possibly related point, almost all of the flamenco guitar makers I've spoken to have seen a dip in orders over the last year or two.
Maybe without superstars like PdL, people outside of Spain are losing interest in flamenco? Hard to say.
However I have noticed that the number of views on most threads are as high if not higher than in the old days. Maybe just as many people are reading the Foro but due to the incredible mass of information already accumulated, don't feel the need to chime in?
On another possibly related point, almost all of the flamenco guitar makers I've spoken to have seen a dip in orders over the last year or two.
Maybe without superstars like PdL, people outside of Spain are losing interest in flamenco? Hard to say.
As much as I hate to admit it Rodrigo y Gabriela brought me to flamenco, they were my gateway, though I went from my first time hearing them to taking actual flamenco lessons within about 6 months. Maybe the decrease is real flamenco popularity could be correlated to the decrease in fakemenco popularity? Less people exposed to the gateway drug.....I feel like a few ears back Ottmar, Benise, and R&G where everywhere, now not so much......
I think it's a wavy pattern, just like music on tv.
You go through a trend where all the clips feature people playing real instruments, then comes the "real instruments aren't cool" trend, then everyone is playing guitar/bass/drums again...etc.
Casual listeners get into whatever fits their basic criteria for what should be "good". Usually it has nothing to do with the person's own musical taste because they have none.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
quote:
Maybe without superstars like PdL, people outside of Spain are losing interest in flamenco? Hard to say.
I hope you are wrong there, Andy. If the only thing that draws people to flamenco is a "superstar," in my opinion they have no real interest nor understanding of flamenco. There is so much more to flamenco than one "superstar" that it would represent a pretty shallow commitment to the genre if that is the only thing that binds them to it.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Moraito's untimely death was a huge blow to flamenco, much more so than Paco's. Not to discount his influence, but Moraito was a living link to great work of the past. I was very down when he died, he was in his prime.
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to Leñador)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador I've got some better recording gear now, I should get to it......
What did you get Lenny? A big reason I'm not uploading more is my current set up of record into a multi-track, do the video on a phone and synch in some crappy free software is a pain in the *!!³@:#x**
I think I joined the foro back in 2009 or so, not sure exactly. At the time it was such a busy place with really interesting conversations & more importantly, uploads happening several times a day. I have to admit I don't frequent the foro as much nowadays mostly because I was always mostly interested in listening to other players and there seems to be less of that now. Fair play to Juan for always putting up stuff in the swap shop. Anyway, I'm sure you all remember how fun and educational it was to have Jason McG here. I know something happened but never cared enough for the drama to actually know what that something was. Florian was great too, he brought huge enthusiasm. Others like Todd, Doit (innovative guitar upgrade aside ), John O etc don't seem to be around much anymore. Personally I'd like to see the place gain back some of the enthusiasm and sharing of uploads/playing etc over the increasing quantity of Off-Topic posts that seem to be showing up. No offense intended to anyone. Just interested in your thoughts Regards, John
1.youtube and state of recording industry. 2. facebook....everybody on there following along and keeping their political views in check. 3. real life .... many posters have found happiness in 1 and 2 and dealing with their real lives leaves no time left for foro type places.
Its not just on the forum. There seems to be less flamenco activity generally in Spain these days. Personally I don't post as much here as I used to because I am much busier than I used to be and also there is less news to report. Flamenco festivals in Spain simply do not have the funding that they used to by local governments so now we are seeing less festivals or smaller festivals with less big names. I remember nights in Granada when we could see Tomatito, Enrique Morente, Pepe Habichuela, Marina Heredia and Eva Hierbabuena all in the same night. Those days are long gone. Gigs are harder to find and don't pay as well. Artists have to travel outside of Spain to get well paid work. On top of that we have lost some of biggest flamenco ambassadors such as Moraito, Morente and of course Paco de lucia. Who are the new artists taking their places... Arcangel? Miguel Poveda? Diego Morao? Antonio Rey?
I really feel that the flamenco world desperately needs some new international ambassadors or it is likely that its popularity will decline and revert to a largely underground art form.
I think I joined the foro back in 2009 or so, not sure exactly. At the time it was such a busy place with really interesting conversations & more importantly, uploads happening several times a day. I have to admit I don't frequent the foro as much nowadays mostly because I was always mostly interested in listening to other players and there seems to be less of that now. Fair play to Juan for always putting up stuff in the swap shop. Anyway, I'm sure you all remember how fun and educational it was to have Jason McG here. I know something happened but never cared enough for the drama to actually know what that something was. Florian was great too, he brought huge enthusiasm. Others like Todd, Doit (innovative guitar upgrade aside ), John O etc don't seem to be around much anymore. Personally I'd like to see the place gain back some of the enthusiasm and sharing of uploads/playing etc over the increasing quantity of Off-Topic posts that seem to be showing up. No offense intended to anyone. Just interested in your thoughts Regards, John
Looks like Grisha has decided to do "one video per day", so that is a very welcomed addition to the swap shop. Just seeing his vids there this week made me pick up the guitar a bit more. Your Tarantas was also very inspiring. I will make an effort this week to post something. Maybe i should start going at it and picking on other members again like i used to. Start some heated arguments. That will drive up popcorn sales a bit. :)
Posts: 2879
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to Pimientito)
quote:
a largely underground art form.
Is that a bad thing? Im not saying it is or isn't. I'm suggesting that it might be good for it to do that for a while. but I would be keen to hear some reasons why that would be a bad thing tho from someone in Spain. What would it actually mean?
EDIT: what is flamenco at the moment? isnt it a bit underground anyway? or niche? or something??
Also... could the apparent lack of activity on here simply be put down to the personalities that were mentioned moving on, getting busy etc etc I was never exactly a huge contributor but when I found the foro in 2007 it was AMAZING!! A place to ask questions on techniques and other stuff to slake my thirst in the early stages of my studies.
I'd say that Paco (god bless him) probably brought more nutcases to this forum!
So Ricardo, you are basically saying there are better places to be these days.
Not really...it's just that a place like foro will be what WE make of it. I see more foro members activities pop up on my facebook news feed (if they are my "friend") than here. What might have been 50/50% some years ago became 99%(facebooking) to 1% here. Why? It's just the way people are doing things. I see the same type of arguments and stuff on FB that we used to see daily on here. People probably prefer the control they have on that format. Many video uploads are non youtube style and hardly anybody wants to link them HERE. On occasion I see a youtube link here that appeared first on Facebook. I don't "tweet" but I notice a lot of FB ers are linking tweet stuff so there is a lot of shift to that location as well. The "iphone" or general smart phone thing also cators to the new shifts in people's online presence. I for one can't deal with foro on my little phone.
As far as my foro "friends"...folks like Todd and Florian and many others are all "married with children" n stuff...doit was in japan or something, etc. Folks are just too busy for flamenco chat forums these days. Even McGuire has been more into his daughter punk band stuff than flamenco biz. So while we can lament the slow traffic here, it is not like FLAMENCO is not relevant to everybody's lives, it's just where and how they are expressing it.
About general decline of trends in flamenco, gigs or shows, money, dead artists etc....I take some reassurance from an old interview with Esteban de Sanlucar where he was talking frankly about the flamenco trends as far as public interest goes. Imagine the end of the "golden era" of flamenco and how bummed folks were about it then! It has always had it's ups and downs in other words. I hope when a renewed interest and/or inspiration for the art form goes back on the rise, that foro will be ready for it.
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Not really...it's just that a place like foro will be what WE make of it. I see more foro members activities pop up on my facebook news feed (if they are my "friend") than here. What might have been 50/50% some years ago became 99%(facebooking) to 1% here. Why? It's just the way people are doing things. I see the same type of arguments and stuff on FB that we used to see daily on here. People probably prefer the control they have on that format. Many video uploads are non youtube style and hardly anybody wants to link them HERE. On occasion I see a youtube link here that appeared first on Facebook. I don't "tweet" but I notice a lot of FB ers are linking tweet stuff so there is a lot of shift to that location as well. The "iphone" or general smart phone thing also cators to the new shifts in people's online presence. I for one can't deal with foro on my little phone.
Facebook is a big part of the decline in participation in online forums. People have been commenting on this on other forums for years and it seems like the most gregarious members are the ones likely to migrate to FB.
Also... could the apparent lack of activity on here simply be put down to the personalities that were mentioned moving on, getting busy etc etc. I was never exactly a huge contributor but when I found the foro in 2007 it was AMAZING!! A place to ask questions on techniques and other stuff to slake my thirst in the early stages of my studies.
Could part of the reason be there are only so many times questions on technique can be asked and answered before one tires of hearing the same thing over and over again? I wonder if there is anything new that can be broached or asked that is not already found in the Foro archives?
There will always be newcomers to flamenco and the Foro who will benefit from information and videos on beginning, intermediate, or advanced techniques, as well as appropriate guitars to purchase. But maybe some of the old-timers who are seldom or no longer posting don't get excited about these things anymore.
Just a thought.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Could part of the reason be there are only so many times questions on technique can be asked and answered before one tires of hearing the same thing over and over again? I wonder if there is anything new that can be broached or asked that is not already found in the Foro archives?
Bill hit the nail on the head...
I'm sure members return every few days. Mostly looking at new instruments being constructed, professional advice, and just searching the wealth of information gathered here.
I'm curious about the number of hits Foro Flamenco currently gets, compared to past years. I bet the number of hits hasn't declined much.
Thanks, Simon. I'm not on FB and don't plan on joining anytime soon. I check the foro almost daily but post infrequently due in part to the reasons Bill cited. People go through phases when it comes to interests and hobbies. These things generally run their course and people move on to something else. This is a great group of people and I enjoy reading what they have to say.
There is also something else going on with society that's difficult to comprehend. Things seemed to change about two or three years ago. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems that so many young people are having a hard time finding their way financially. Marriage rates have decreased for 20 somethings--they are having trouble finding jobs and are more likely to still be living with their parents. They also have a lot of debt so they are less inclined to begin pursuing whatever personal interests they have. It just seems to me that things have been changing for the worse these past few years.
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
Could part of the reason be there are only so many times questions on technique can be asked and answered before one tires of hearing the same thing over and over again? I wonder if there is anything new that can be broached or asked that is not already found in the Foro archives?
The new challenge is new and exciting Bill. You should sign up.
RE: Where has everyone gone? (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
I hope you are wrong there, Andy. If the only thing that draws people to flamenco is a "superstar," in my opinion they have no real interest nor understanding of flamenco. There is so much more to flamenco than one "superstar" that it would represent a pretty shallow commitment to the genre if that is the only thing that binds them to it.
Bill
I agree that if your search ends there then you haven't really discovered flamenco at all, but I think it certainly helps to have a very popular artist who can transcend borders, and who also happens to be a true legend of the art form.
I discovered flamenco though Manitas de Plata (the previous generation's superstar), but the next album I purchased was La Niña de los Peines and I got hooked on flamenco puro from there.
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), John O etc don't seem to be around much anymore. 
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