Humidity 70%

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Humidity 70%

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aggie

Posts: 1
Joined: Apr. 18 2015

Humidity 70%

Hey guys,

I live in Texas and there is always very high humidity about 65-70%. I have a humicase protégé but this is just the opposite to protect the guitar from low humidity, right? What should I do in case of high humidity weather? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 1:24:12

Mason

Posts: 12
Joined: Nov. 4 2014
From: Texas

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

Where in TX? With the AC on the coils will dry the air out.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 1:39:48

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

That's so dry!! Here it's 75 in the dry season. I keep a soft bag of silicon beads in my guitar case. This helps smooth out the extremes. Some of those silicon bags can be dried out in the microwave. If that's too minimal for you I heard of a guy in Florida that build a small dehumidified cabinet for his 6 stringed beauties, would be cheaper than a full time AC unit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 2:47:14

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

A cabinet would mean sudden fluctuation.
I estimate that a couple of hours exposing to humidity values considerably differing from those in storage may cause no problem, but anytime that you forget your guitar on the stand for more than that, it could be challenge to the adapting wood.

Seeing humidity conditions I had in Germany, 70% would be alright for guitars built under common values (which should mean 40 to 45% RH).
Endangering seems to start at over 70% under normal room temperature.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 8:38:05

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

I have spent much of my life living and working in the tropics of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Burma, etc.) where the humidity on average is a consistent 85 percent. In addition to the air conditioning units, we always had dehumidifiers in our closets to keep our clothes and other items dry and free of mold.

I suggest you check out dehumidifiers at Home Depot or other stores. Good dehumidifiers will run you $200 to $300. If you put your guitars and a dehumidifier in a closet, that should keep your guitars in good shape.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 13:09:27

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

He is having 70%.
At normal temperatures no problem.

A gideline from a manufacturer:
http://www.larrivee.com/features/humidity.php

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 15:32:24

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

He is having 70%.
At normal temperatures no problem.

70% R.H. is 70% R.H. regardless of temperature.

It's perfectly understandable that at 70% he might be experiencing a "soggy" guitar and that he wants to bring it down to get the most (and moist lol) out of his guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 16:03:15

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

Are you now my personal humbug stalker?

The TO was only speaking of humidity. The one who engaged the special term of relative humidity in this thread has been me.

Get off my heels with your dizziness!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 17:11:39

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Ruphus)

This again? Three in a row?

quote:

The TO was only speaking of humidity. The one who engaged the special term of relative humidity in this thread has been me.

What special term? 70% of absolute humidity then? Is that a thing? It doesn't even make sense but hey, why bother showing it to you if you don't even care... you have a special way of misinterpreting your own sources.

edit: To avoid further confusion, everyone is talking about R.H. since the beginning, hence the "%".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 17:25:44

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

My cigars would love high humidity locations but I've noticed that guitars hate it soundwise, the sound becomes dull and somewhat muddy even on otherwise crispy guitar.

Otherwise I see no problem with high humidity except in extreme conditions it affecting the glue on the guitar or lowering the action of the guitar, especially on guitars with thin necks. One guitar I have was affected so much by high humidity that it started buzzing on the open high E string

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 18:17:58

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to tele)

quote:

My cigars would love high humidity locations but I've noticed that guitars hate it soundwise, the sound becomes dull and somewhat muddy even on otherwise crispy guitar.

Even though different manufacturers always state around the same ballpark of R.H. in their shops/factories, you can get 2 guitars from different parts of the world and while one will love your place's R.H., the other one will think it's too much. Wood also reacts to air pressure so don't go buying guitars made on Everest when you live by the beach.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 18:39:27

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

This again? Three in a row?

quote:

The TO was only speaking of humidity. The one who engaged the special term of relative humidity in this thread has been me.

What special term? 70% of absolute humidity then? Is that a thing?

Absolutely! But it's effects are far more serious on a left handed guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 18:42:07

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

Absolutely! But it's effects are far more serious on a left handed guitar.

LOL

Well, let's just agree that if "no matter what kind" of humidity is making you feel the need to add/subtract "no matter what kind" of humidity, it is indeed helpful that you do something about it and find the best solution considering where you play or store your guitars.

Just have more trust in your instinct when the thought "my guitar used to sound and play much better" arises.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 18:51:28

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

Dudnote,

There is a significant difference whether a certain percentage of humdity being at higher or lower air temperatures.
While 70% at normal room temperatures may not be detrimental to a guitar built under common conditions, it may be destructive at high temperatures like say above ~ 30° C.

Ruphus

From WP:

quote:

Relative humidity (abbreviated RH) is the ratio of the partial pressure of water vapor to the equilibrium vapor pressure of water at the same temperature. Relative humidity depends on temperature and the pressure of the system of interest.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 18:57:36

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Ruphus)

@Ruphus

That is true and you can see I've also mentioned air pressure along the discussion.

What I meant by my original observation is that from a "guitar talk" perspective, people usually never mention pressure or temperature, the guideline is just R.H., that's why I said that it is understandable that at a value around 70% there might be a felt need to do something about it (unresponsive guitar for instance).

Anyways, 70% humidity means 70% R.H., it is the same thing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 19:10:14

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

To my understanding air pressure is of same effect as air temperature, for both having to do with air density and from there absorbation capacity of water in the air.

My guitars did not show much effect with 70% at normal room temperature, in Germany. However, a transport inside a guitar case through rainy wheather (with maybe around 90% RH) for even just a short taxi trip did effect dramatically. (I exchanged the strings right away, for having had no clue what the actual cause was.)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 19:26:02

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

To my understanding air pressure is of same effect as air temperature, for both having to do with air density and from there absorbation capacity of water in the air.

Sure it is but we (guitarists) never mention either of them, I think everyone sticks to R.H. as a guideline and then they adapt the readings to their own environment if it is somewhat unusual.

The bottom line for not crewing a guitar ends up being "avoid abrupt R.H. changes" and not the exact values.

Regarding playability and tone I think we all want to avoid the "soggy and slow" guitar which usually means "I have to drop my R.H."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 20:13:07

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Regarding playability and tone I think we all want to avoid the "soggy and slow" guitar which usually means "I have to drop my R.H."

That's the bottom line, and I think it is best accomplished by keeping the guitar in a small room with a dehumidifier. They really do work well.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 20:29:18

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Ruphus)

Yeps, I'm with you guys on this. This article makes it look simple

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/cld/dvlp/rh.rxml

So according to that the saturation vapour pressure is determined (non-linearly) by temperature, so if T increases and RH stays the same the absolute vapour pressure of air has to increase (and a lot more so than T did).

Could be time I get one of those dehumidifiers Bill mentioned.

But here's a question. How to know you are not setting that thing (the dehumidifuer) so low as to expose your guitar to a dangerous vapour pressure shock when you take it out and play it? i.e. how big a change in vapour pressure constitutes a dangerous change?

Time I get a hygrometer or two around here too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 20:30:26

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

But here's a question. How to know you are not setting that thing (the dehumidifuer) so low as to expose your guitar to a dangerous vapour pressure shock when you take it out and play it? i.e. how big a change in vapour pressure constitutes a dangerous change?

I have a relatively big one, it has wheels and it's more or less the height of a chair. The bigger it is, the less you'll be taking water out of it... that's something you might want to have in mind.

There's no settings on it (mine), just a knob to adjust the threshold of where do you want it to stop sucking. Don't worry.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 20:46:19

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to aggie)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 21:14:15

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
I have a relatively big one...

For a moment I thought you'd drifted way of topic there

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 21:31:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

For a moment I thought you'd drifted way of topic there

It's understandable, specially because of this:

quote:

it has wheels and it's more or less the height of a chair. The bigger it is, the less you'll be taking water out of it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 21:53:52

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
They really do work well.

Probably depends on quality and on how ventilated the room is. We have a cheap one that gets so hot the vapour pressure in the room it's in always seems to sky rocket

Did anyone here try within case dehumidifiers (ie. something more technical than bags of silicon beads)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 21:56:03

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aggie

Hey guys,

........What should I do in case of high humidity weather? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Move!!

Or you could always try to decipher the hoard!!

I do know a good removal company If required.

Best

pink

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2015 23:46:52

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Humidity 70% (in reply to aggie)

I've found that if I leave a specific guitar inside the case when its very humid, that guitar will grab more humidity than if I leave it out of the case.

I like low action on this guitar to make it "choke" the chords in a vocal midrange-y way that sounds very nice. If I leave it inside the case when the humidity is high, then I take it out and the action will be so low that instead of a gentle choke when playing hard, notes will be kinda buzzy and deadish even with normal playing.

Since leaving the guitar outside the case I've never had this happen again... and Iam using my summer saddle (lower).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2015 0:24:15