Navarro cracking issues

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

Navarro cracking issues

About three weeks after receiving a Navarro "Reyes model" negra, I started to see cracking on the bottom in a couple areas. The wood is Camatillo. What is the current best way to repair these cracks. I use to work for a luthier doing FP and some repairs but that was long ago.
Guitar was always in a humidified room in a humidified case.
Any tips would be appreciated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2015 18:36:53

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

post some images of the crack(s)

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2015 21:30:55

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Crack is just under the light. Its about 4" long. The other is on the other side of the
Bottom about 2" long. The longer one follows the grain the short one does not.
I know its difficult to tell from my photo, but its a hairline crack. Looking from straight above its very difficult to find it. Repair advice welcome.

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2015 22:53:39

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

I decided to take the guitar to a local builder/repair shop and see what they could do. The owner looked inside and told me that this crack has already been repaired with a CA type glue. The fact that the crack doesn't move when pressed says its holding. Now I'm wondering when was this repair done and by who?
I guess any further posts should be on "product review"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2015 19:39:59

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Why not return it?

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2015 18:48:49

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Quick question: did you purchase this guitar direct from Navarro, or from his USA dealer in Texas (I THINK it's Texas..)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2015 22:08:39

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Originally purchased the guitar from LeGrand Music Studios in Knoxville. When I first noticed the cracking he said theres nothing he could do and to contact the importer in Houston. Nice! The importer Ron said because I made some scratches on the neck and some scuffs on the top he would charge me 750.00 to trade in. He also said the crack was a surface crack and could be repired to be invisible. Not!! That's when I said send it back and I will deal with the repairs. When I took it to a local repair shop he looked way down inside and said that the crack goes all the way thru and it was already repaired with what appears to be CA glue. Unbelievable! He stated that the repair was done before the French Polish as there was no glue residue or disturbance to the finish. Ron made a statement that the crack was probably caused by dropping it or mishandling by me. Regardless of some scratches made by me it appears I was sold a guitar that was previously broken and repaired but sold as new. I have sent photos and the statement by the local repair shop to LeGrand and the importer with no response. So we'll see where it goes.
Hope this qualifies for a meaningful post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2015 23:47:57

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Picked up a cheapy $20.00 usb boroscope camera and fed it down to take these. Not real clear put it shows the repaired area. I don't know what those white gobs are? Anyone?

Attachment (3)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 0:32:21

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Man, that sucks. If what you're saying is correct, then it sounds like you have a good case for small claims court against the store that sold it to you. I think that any reasonable judge would agree that a new wooden instrument implies that it is free of cracks. If you do, be sure you get a written invoice from the local repair shop stating their findings and conclusions. Hope it all works out somehow for you.

My understanding (from what I've read on here) is that CA glue is a poor choice for this type of repair. It's like an easy but not long-term fix, and I think it makes a proper repair much more difficult now, if not impossible(?)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 8:42:55

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

I googled LeGrand Music studio and it appears they are an organization that provides music lessions and not sales. Was this purchase from a member selling the guitar or does this place sell instruments but does not advertise on its' own website? If a member/staff person sold the guitar, as used, it could very well be it was cracked prior to being sold. If LeGrand sells instruments then it seems they should take responsibility as you were sold a defective new product or a misrepresented used product (not mentioning the previously repaired crack). It may be the guitar cracked at the Navarro shop, was glued to mask the cracked and then French Polished. If this was the case then one if not all parties up and down the chain should do something to rectify this situation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 12:40:03

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Yeah I hear you. Reputation is everything. If you don't stand behind what you sell it will come back to you.

Thank Keith, DaBomb for the advise and support.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 16:29:52

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to fyr4efect)

Well after a bunch of negotiation I received a 90% refund, a deduct for scratches I put there. LeGrand Studios was finally helpful, and said he will no longer sell any guitars because of this issue. Wrote a letter to Navarro which I am yet to get a reply. Nobody is taking credit for the repair. Maybe I should have kept the magical self-healing guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2015 21:16:29

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Navarro cracking issues (in reply to keith)

Top scratches are sometime hard to repair and any damage done to the guitar other than the problem at hand deserves compensation to some extent.

I might say that any time you have a flat cut back, there is always a chance that the back will have different drying rates concerning the way the wood grain goes.

I have had that happen to one of my classical guitars back in the 70's. Now, I try and seal the backs before I close in the guitar, with a little shellac to slow down the expansion and shrink rate.

But any kind of flat sawn back, if not totally dried for years, will have a tendency to have unequal drying across its surface.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2015 12:40:27