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RE: Professional Model?   You are logged in as Guest
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constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to timoteo) 
quote:

You must read the book "Priceless: The Myth of Fair Value" by William Poundstone


Okay. Maybe I'll end up just doubling my prices instead.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2015 0:42:00
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

Anders--We need to cheer up.


This Professional Model always cheers me up



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2015 13:35:44
 
johnguitar

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Just two thoughts Ethan: First I'll tell you that one of the dealers I work with began selling more of my guitars after one particular price hike because before that his retail price of my guitars was in a range that is saturated-too many makers selling at that price. The second point is that although sales in my classical and flamenco are down (hard times and high ratio of builders to buyers), the sales of my "premium" guitar which costs 2000 Euros extra are way up. Those with money these days are buying high end cars, houses and everything else because they feel that it is a better investment. So I'm with Timoteo.

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John Ray
https://www.johnguitar.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2015 17:51:32
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to johnguitar) 
Thanks, John! This is interesting.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2015 17:55:05
 
Flamingrae

 

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Life is once - don't compromise what you do, do what you love. Maybe a bit of marketing or such is required. People will try and beat you down on a price too. I'm not saying dont do or have a cheaper version. Maybe you could decide how many instruments you can build in a year and do a sample number of a no frills pattern, but always make your top quality guitars? Trust you have seen Steve Edens version - awesome. Just throwing thoughts out there. 8-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2015 1:26:57
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
If you love building guitars and don't want to stop, GO FOR IT!! I enjoy building my Student model just as much and sometimes more than my top model. I just love the simplicity of it!

Cheers for the shout out Flamegrae, I didn't think anyone had remembered that thread.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2015 15:00:03
 
SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

so that I can sell more guitars


Flamenco guitars are relatively small market. You just need more exposure.

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Rick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2015 17:20:37
 
etta

 

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Lots of good advice on this thread, but if you love building guitars, build the best you can, as if you were building for yourself, and sell them at the highest prices the market will bear.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2015 20:36:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

quote:

You must read the book "Priceless: The Myth of Fair Value" by William Poundstone


Okay. Maybe I'll end up just doubling my prices instead.



For musicians this can work too. If you want real (poor lol) players to use your guitar, you have to let em go special, but I see no problem with shooting for the upper end market. THe mid range market has way too many options. I know musicans tired of teaching so they upped the price to ridiculous amount and they got slammed with new people they had to turn down. Average buyers don't take it personal if you charge professionals less than average joes....marketing is understood by everyone these days. IF you make a super fancy $12,000 model, and have to wait, it will be worth it once it sells. THen you will have to make more the same.

I sometimes lose gigs because i over charge, but it's ok because I often make up for it later with some very well paid thing. If I undercharge, the nice jobs don't come because people with serious budget assume you are not very good. ONce I get some good paid things going, it becomes a network where we can keep it going with their people or every year whatever it is.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2015 16:32:15
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to etta) 
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.

Etta, I think I am most likely to follow your suggestions. I realize now that I have been neglecting the business end of business. I was hoping that my relationship with GSI would magically take care of that. Now I realize that, as has been advised here, I need to get out and show my guitars at some exhibitions and get more of them into the hands of great players. I was having a moment of panic. It's funny how a little bit of income can dispel that for a while.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2015 1:54:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Ethan yeah just build what you build now. But once in a while make a show stopper and price it really high. If you put extra time into it just reflect that in your price and them some. The world is strange right now, some people have lots of money to spend on what they want and others will not let go of a penny for a good guitar. I've had guys order two, but then had some others turn up noses at the same guitar offered for less money.


But one thing to beware, the student model can brand you into a low tier price range. It's as dangerous as it is attractive. Once you get known for making good lower priced guitars it will be harder to sell mid priced guitars. I learned that the hard way. If anything I advise having two tiers, one high mid price and one twice as high but that you busted your ass to make a masterpiece. $5000.00 mid level and $10,000 plus high level.

With your ability and artistry I would not waste time with student guitars. The $10,000 won't sell as often but, when it does you will be in another category. If you make a show stopper guitar and send it to GSI they will be able to upsell your other stock by comparison.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2015 2:12:36
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to estebanana) 
Thanks, Ricardo and Estebanna. Sounds like good advice too. I have built some special guitars, Brazillian rosewood and birdseye maple--in fact, for customers who had purchased cypress blancas previously. Yeah, good idea to make some special guitars on spec once in a while.

I hope everyone who was looking forward to an inexpensive model from me doesn't feel terribly jilted now. I'll still have bargains every now and then when I accidentally cause a small cosmetic defect.

In fact, although the guitar I had like that just sold, I still have one with a white golpeador (and a clear one on the bass side) that I have had for several years--because no one seems to want one with a white golpeador--whose price could probably be talked down (see www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars and

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2015 3:52:47
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I hope everyone who was looking forward to an inexpensive model from me doesn't feel terribly jilted now.


Don't worry about that, Ethan. You luthiers perform an invaluable service for which you're rarely properly compensated. Just do what you need to do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2015 10:44:02
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Exhibition of Handcrafted Musical In... (in reply to timoteo) 
Thanks again, Timoteo. I will be exhibiting my guitars at Maryhurst, south of Portland, Oregon, in April





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_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 30 2015 23:53:25
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Ethan, I can imagine it is tough to try and eek out a living as a luthier. I recall Jose Ramirez mentioning in his book about how luthiers were destined to the poor house. Of course in his case that was not that true but for most I suspect the poor house is a possible end of the road for many luthiers. I hope that is not the case for you--and for other luthiers here.

As to going the route of selling an inexpensive guitar I think the story of Coke and Tab might be germaine. Way back in the day diet soft drinks were invented to help women tuck themselves into a bikini. In the early 1960's Coke decided to jump into the market but rather than go the route of Royal Crown Cola and market their diet drink as diet Coke and possibly ruin their branding they came up with Tab. For those who are young and may not have tasted those drings, the first diet drinks used cyclamate and then saccharin and both tasted like crap. Besides tasting bad both chemicals were linked to horrible atrocities such as cancer, etc. Needless to say Coke wanted the money from bikini stuffers but not the bad publicity of a crappy tasting beverage that could result in bladder cancer or growing an additional body part or whatever pathology that was in vogue then. The moral of the story is that if you decide to go a route of selling a guitar a notch above a factory guitar you should come up with a different name so as not to negatively affect your brand.

Of course the above moral of the story was shot down when Coke came up with New Coke. Now there was a bad marketing ploy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 31 2015 16:56:41
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2015 2:42:25
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to timoteo) 
quote:

I also strongly suggest you exhibit your work at Marylhurst this year: http://nwmusicalinstrumentshow.org/


It was interesting being in this exhibit last weekend. I met Robert Ruck, seen below playing one of my guitars, and some other well-known luthiers. They and several attendees mentioned that they had been aware of my work.









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_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:40:35
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Wow that looks busy! Most of the exhibitions I have been to over here are small affairs with few makers and few people to try out the guitars. They usually turn into a guitar builder catch up and see what each other is doing type of thing.

How did it go for you though?

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 9:14:39
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
Actually, the first two photos were taken before it got really busy. It was open to the public from noon until 5:00 P.M. Saturday and Sunday and it quickly got very crowded and extremely noisy each afternoon. I learned that this was the 40th year of this event and it is well-attended even though there is an entrance fee (I think $3).

Instrument tryouts were supposed to take place mainly in another room, but mostly they took place in the exhibition hall. It sounded like a bizarre symphony, with unrelated music being played simultaneously on violins, guitars, flutes, harps, and other instruments, and people's voices rising accordingly.

It was gratifying, though, to be visited at my table by people who were familiar with my work from the Internet and word of mouth. I would not be surprised if one or more of those encounters leads to a sale eventually.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 14:49:27
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