Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: Music Theory: Why?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   5 6 7 [8] 9    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to estebanana

Music theory.... Why?

Wow, great question! I have no f'ing idea..





_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 3:53:43
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

You need to know theory in order to get the results that your understanding of theory will give you.

You don't need to know theory to get the results from not knowing theory.

By not knowing theory, you'll certainly fail miserably at attempting to produce musical parts based on the exploration of theory.

If you really understand theory, there's no reason for it to be an obstacle to your guitar/flamenco playing.


How does this--or any of your other posts that followed it--answer the original questions? Talk about twisting things around for your own purposes.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 10:25:22
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Given the true question on this thread, I feel that in order to clarify the matter at hand we should see beyond any particular genre.


So YOU think the original poster didn't know what he wanted to ask! The "true question" as opposed to what--the op's questions? Interesting...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 10:33:39
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

I don't think we need more concepts, what we need is to be a bit more pragmatic and stop trying to analyse one genre based on the premises of another genre.


My point exactly, although I disagree with the second part of your statement.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 10:38:34
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

All theories are right for me and I believe people hear things differently so.. there are many variables.

The only need for unified theory would be at institutions or to communicate with other musicians... and again, if you know how theory works you'll understand other points of view pretty quick.


Here you are answering your own questions yet again. It is obvious you don't think the op knew what he wanted to ask.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 10:46:40
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

The only need for unified theory would be at institutions or to communicate with other musicians...


Was the op interested in a unified theory? Do you remember the op mentioning "no talent" in question two and "the masters" as well as "pure talent" in question three? Care to address this aspect of the posted questions. It seems like I'm the only one to address this concern. Why don't you comment on this as well...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 10:54:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Analysis Paralysis.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 12:42:15
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Theorize this:

No more bitching about your right hands or scale length or arpeggios.....



Or just grow bigger balls like this guy.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:16:45
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to estebanana

quote:


No more bitching about your right hands or scale length or arpeggios.....



Or just grow bigger balls like this guy.


Now what will people who have poor technique think? If they think they weren't holding the guitar correctly this might be the way to go--lol! Yep, that’s the secret they needed to know to progress since there’s no such thing as talent.

Where there's a will there's a way. Gifted players like this never cease to amaze me.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:32:39
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Strawman!

PG, in my opinion, you just went full retard.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:36:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

I never go full retard. Tom Hanks went full retard. Simple Jeff went full retard. I know the movie reference.

Strawman my ass, he's a good player.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:46:19
 
marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

the yana mulyana video reminds me of this
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:51:34
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Ok Marduk I got another one for you!

Straw Obachan, just try to knock her down!




Ok back to your regularly scheduled theory class....

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:56:19
 
marduk

Posts: 600
Joined: Feb. 3 2010
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

doesn't count because PRS guitars play themselves.. pretty badass though
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 13:59:52
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Theorize this:

No more bitching about your right hands or scale length or arpeggios.....


And he's a lefty to boot!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 14:24:18
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

PG, in my opinion, you just went full retard.


It seems obvious to me that the op was interested in knowing how much a person might benefit from knowing music theory. His questions were related to his aspirations to become “’an all-round good musician’ or ‘good guitarist’ or ‘good improviser’” as well as a “good flamenco” composer. He also set up a continuum from “no talent” to mastering the instrument by what might be “pure talent” as way of understanding what outcome was possible by studying music theory.

Sr. Martin, you provided numerous statements that suited your personal interests without directly addressing the op’s questions. Also, it should be obvious to you by now that you never understood the questions, but only used them as a starting point to share your personal opinions. THE AD HOMINEM STATEMENT YOU MADE REFLECTS POORLY ON YOU—it’s unfortunate that you did not realize that before posting it. I was taught not to take people with degrees in music very seriously and it’s mostly because they intentionally obscure the important issues that might be useful for anyone interested in learning how to play an instrument well.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 14:34:10
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

If your ignorance feels threatened, go learn something. Leaving poops all over a topic that has no value to you won't do nothing for your inferiority complex.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 14:50:42
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

If your ignorance feels threatened, go learn something. Leaving poops all over a topic that has no value to you won't do nothing for your inferiority complex.


I never said that music theory has no value to me. If that is your understanding of my posts than very little can be done to help you understand this--or any other--subject. I was able to improvise solos against a ii/V/I progression decades ago so I'm in no way against music theory. You are the one making personal attacks and scatological remarks and you've done this in many other threads as well. It's best to not take yourself and your opinions too seriously, but if you do at least make an effort to understand what other people have said...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 15:02:32
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Dude, all the crap you've been writing happens to be the result of you not understanding things.

From now on I'll ignore all this paralell crap, don't feel offended if I ignore your contributions to theory threads in general.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 15:11:11
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Dude, all the crap you've been writing happens to be the result of you not understanding things.

From now on I'll ignore all this paralell crap, don't feel offended if I ignore your contributions to theory threads in general.


If you are not capable of responding in a substantive way than please do so.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 15:25:57
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

And finally the Almonaster version....


Is that the one (or one of the ones) where it modulates to A major?

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 16:26:41
 
Kevin

 

Posts: 294
Joined: Sep. 7 2008
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Paul: It is actually Fandangos de Santa Eulalia that go to A. I always confuse the two. The A in Almonaster acts as a mnemonic for A major, lol.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 16:54:43
 
Kevin

 

Posts: 294
Joined: Sep. 7 2008
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Ramzi: I am sorry the thread has come to this. I truly believe that all people theorize, we all engage in the same processes that lead to theory, and therefore to theory itself. Western Music theorists are not special in their ability; they are only special in their devotion and dedication to articulating that theory in writing.

The problem with this thread, something that I am trying to remedy in other posts and threads, is that the conversation is between relatively few people. Instead of working together to provide some insight for beginner-players (generally, but also those new to theory), everyone continues to speak in the abstract. I believe GB, Sr Martins, Pgh, Ricardo, and many others have some cool insights but they are not coming out in practical examples.

Some philosophical traditions "yoke" their theories to practice. In India during the time of the Buddhist Nagarjuna, the stakes were high. You had to prove that your philosophies were practical. If you won a debate, the losers - teacher and students - were expected to convert.

At any rate. My goal has always been to help beginners interested primarily in playing, but also in a general understanding of how things are put together in flamenco. So I will be on another thread doing that. I don't have anything against people like Todd, Stephen, or Bill, but over the years I have felt attacked, offended and insulted. I'm tired of that negativity so they are invited to stay away from any other threads I post, or at the very least, contribute some real musical examples.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 17:59:41
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Kevin

quote:

I believe GB, Sr Martins, Pgh, Ricardo, and many others have some cool insights but they are not coming out in practical examples.

Some philosophical traditions "yoke" their theories to practice. In India during the time of the Buddhist Nagarjuna, the stakes were high. You had to prove that your philosophies were practical. If you won a debate, the losers - teacher and students - were expected to convert.


Maybe you are overlooking the fact that the "conversion" goes only so far. You might try to show others something but you have no obligation to baby sit and feed them with a spoon. Ultimately you debate these things because you enjoy them, take that away and all you're doing is trying to prove yourself to hecklers.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 18:16:43
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Kevin

quote:

It is actually Fandangos de Santa Eulalia that go to A


This has always been my favourite fandango. Now it reminds me of a long night of juerga with José Millán, when we ended up in a bar at 5 am, with doors closed and 3 or 4 aficionados. Eventually José decided to sing fandangos. I know than Alosno is usually accompanied in A, but in Cádiz all are accompanied in E, to which I am acustomed. However José started in A. All went well for 20 minutes until he sang por Santa Eulalia. Since we were all rather less than sober, my befuddled mind could not think of the next chord. So I stopped playing. José stopped singing. I looked at him and said "José, I think it´s time to go home" He, even drunker than me, agreed.

Así se aprende
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 18:45:40
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Morante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

..... in A, but in Cádiz all are accompanied in E, to which I am acustomed.

However José started in A. All went well for 20 minutes until he sang por Santa Eulalia. Since we were all rather less than sober, my befuddled mind could not think of the next chord. So I stopped playing. José stopped singing. I looked at him and said "José, I think it´s time to go home" He, even drunker than me, agreed.

Así se aprende


Yeah, I think I get it, yeah !!!!!!! of course.........go home and practice transpostition for next time.

That's what this thread is all about.


Or maybe I am still not getting the point.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 19:02:48
 
SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to ToddK

Stephen,

That fine video of the lady blues player enlightened me:

Some music is better left in theory...

"...I'm going to take a shotgun and connect it to my brain..."



Now, back to our Thread.

_____________________________

Rick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 19:22:37
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to guitarbuddha

quote:

Or maybe I am still not getting the point.


I think you are In the real world of flamenco, instant transposition and tone recognition, even when catatonic, are essential!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 19:48:31
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Morante

quote:

I think you are In the real world of flamenco, instant transposition and tone recognition, even when catatonic, are essential!


Flamenco has it easier than other genres/instruments because of the general use of a capo.

I find that people who never used a capo adapt easily to it while people who are used to transpose only with a capo get totally lost without it. The thought process is very different.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2015 19:58:14
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Kevin

quote:

At any rate. My goal has always been to help beginners interested primarily in playing, but also in a general understanding of how things are put together in flamenco. So I will be on another thread doing that. I don't have anything against people like Todd, Stephen, or Bill, but over the years I have felt attacked, offended and insulted. I'm tired of that negativity so they are invited to stay away from any other threads I post, or at the very least, contribute some real musical examples.


I don't think anyone is persecuting you over music theory. And if I feel like posting on your threads I will. You're adopting the "I'm taking my ball home" attitude here.

Here is how people are as a professor of sculpture I had told me 20 years ago. I was saying how people did not like what I was offering or talking about. She said this:

"Stephen people are like iguanas, like lizards really. If you put the wrong kind of lettuce food in front of them they will just slink away and not be interested in eating it. "

There's nothing wrong with me, Todd or Bill. Mostly we have strong opinions, but we do listen to others. The problem is that you need to think of us as iguanas. If you want us to like your lettuce, grow a different kind. If you don't care if we like your lettuce it might even be better for you.

Personally I prefer a good rocket salad.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2015 0:04:57
Page:   <<   <   5 6 7 [8] 9    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   5 6 7 [8] 9    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.078125 secs.