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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2014 21:22:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

Maybe Iam missing something regarding your purpose but what you ask is kind of pointless... and maybe that's why you can't find it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2014 23:01:51

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

Fretboard Warrior.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2014 23:19:31

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 25 2014 23:25:21

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

*facepalm*

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 0:16:40

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

quote:

My cousin wants to become a rumbero, he loves the Gipsy Kings. Asked me how to learn the fretboard and what kind of theory he needs to know.

Learning the fretboard and music theory to be a rumbero is kinda like
going through army special ops training to be a mall security guard.

Teach him a rumba strum, and whamo, he's a rumbero.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 2:54:04

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

I remember working with the book "The Advancing Guitarist" by Mick Goodrink from a strong recommendation from one of my flamenco teachers about 6 years ago. He said the book was very difficult to grasp at times but VERY good at the same time, one of those books that every time you work with it you find something deeper.

I worked with it for about two years, got through about ten pages. It was a massive struggle but I remember it being very helpful. I think to make the most of this book you need a very solid knowledge of the theory and a good teacher who can guide through as well.

But I do certainly recommend it for anyone who wants to explore the fretboard to a deeper level.

Now if only if I can remember where I put that damn book....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 3:39:42

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 5:43:39

changue

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

http://truefire.com/jazz-guitar-lessons/modal-improv-survival-guide/

I found this guy very helpful. In essence, he gets you playing all the modes in all the scales round the cycle of fifths. You need to persevere but I found that it transformed my relationship with the fretboard and also vastly improved my sight-reading.

Good luck!

CH

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 8:44:18

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php

Click A minor or phrygian dominant, can be learned in boxes or around the whole board, there is also phrygian, lydian etc. in the same patterns, and also chords used in rumba.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 10:40:27

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Fretboard Warrior

I can just repeat Ramzi. It's the shortest way to Your goal as far as I know. And it's free. Once You've finished with that, You may go through the Absolute Fretboard trainer software as well. Pretty helpful.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 11:06:38

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Fretboard Warrior

Guitar is an instrument of patterns. Fretboard Warrior might be nice to test yourself but it doesn't seem to have a method regarding those patterns and repetitions.

If you know some music theory, there's no need for this kind of "cold" note memorization, it serves no purpose. Intervals/degrees will put any note you need under your fingers before you have time to figure out what it's called... and if you need to know it's name, you'll easily figure it out.

If you play by shapes and know nothing about intervals, knowing the name of the notes you're pressing will keep being useless.

None of this has anything to do with rumbas.. could have said "it's christmas so I would like to learn the fretboard", it would mean the same.

For these reasons, the solution would either be:

- a fretboard note chart (not that useful if you don't derive patterns from it)
- a re-thinking of what's really needed here without dissing people who try to help

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 12:52:28

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Learning the fretboard and music theory to be a rumbero is kinda like going through army special ops training to be a mall security guard.

Great observation, Todd. Clever and to the point.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 13:45:27

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

nealf, Initially the way I tried to learn the fretboard was struggling with trying to remember each note. Pretty tough way to go until I read a trick online at a site called Wholenote.com. Wow, crazy easy. First step, explain that he has to first learn the names of each string. Once he has that down then you can move on to each note on each string up the fretboard. Now explain the intervals or steps between each note. Show him the major scale and how that works.

Take one string each day or week or month whatever you think is the best for your cousin. Starting with the 6th string E for example, show him that the distance between E and F is one half step which equals one fret. Then move on to the next interval from F to G which is a whole step or two frets and so on up the neck. Don't worry about sharps/flats at this time, first learn each note position on each string on the neck. Once he has that, the next phase is to fill in sharps/flats which is much easier when he knows that on the 6th string 5th pos the note is an A.

The key to me anyway was that once I knew the names of each note and their respective positions on the fretboard it was much easier to understand how things fit together on the guitar. Its just a first step but emphasize to him that he really should at least learn the notes on the neck of his instrument. Hope this helps!
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 15:01:43

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Fretboard Warrior might be nice to test yourself but it doesn't seem to have a method regarding those patterns and repetitions

agreed. We may have understood this differently. I've never stated it's a method. never meant to be. it's just a simple tool for learning the notes on the fretboard. that's it.

Of course, You need to learn the intervals, scale patterns, etc etc. but a good start is to learn the notes first, that give You a benchmark.

Do You really need them to be a rumbero? well, it's up to your goals, and what one wants to achieve

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 16:28:15

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

This website has some cool lessons on theory.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/drop_2_chords.html

For example, take this lesson on drop-2 chords, it explains how to find 12 different fingerings for each of the various 7 chords. Some of those fingerings would be familiar even to a beginner, others are rarer (because they are harder and require more practice).

Jumping between all 12 of these various inversions (for each type of 7 chord) now features regularly in my warm up routine - some of the 37R5 inversions were particularly challenging to start with (and still are when close to the nut).

For me, one of the coolest thing about learning all those inversions was that suddenly I realised they were in pieces I'd already learnt but never really "understood" what chord it was I was playing. Another cool thing is how shifting between these different inversions really opens up the fretboard when improvising.

That sort of knowledge has to be useful to any guitarist - even a rumba fan.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 18:20:50

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

I'm willing to bet a jazz guitar forum would be a great place to pose this question. I think they may be a lil more fretboard savvy than many flamencos.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 18:39:17

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

I have been working out some of these tunes and I think many are in Em or E Phrygian.
So if your friend learns these scales in an open position inside out, with and without the dominant
note, I reckon you can play a lot of this material. After that I think the 3 note per string scale system would be useful.

Never tried warrior and that. Will look at it.

Cheers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 19:53:48

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

I'm willing to bet a jazz guitar forum would be a great place to pose this question. I think they may be a lil more fretboard savvy than many flamencos.....

Yes, for example Fernando Moreno said he doesn't know theory, nor does he know how to read music, it's all learned by ear and eyes, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other great guitarists wouldn't know that in the world of flamenco. It's a bit unnecessary altough theory can help understand what's going on.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 20:46:02

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to tele)

quote:

Yes, for example Fernando Moreno said he doesn't know theory, nor does he know how to read music, it's all learned by ear and eyes, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other great guitarists wouldn't know that in the world of flamenco. It's a bit unnecessary altough theory can help understand what's going on.

This is true, but it is an enormous help if you want to work with other musicians or do musical arragements in a major dance group. I have always regretted that I never had the opportunity to learn solféa. It is easy to carry even when you don´t need it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 22:07:40

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Morante)

It is more important to understand how intervals work and how they relate to the fretboard than memorizing notes on the fretboard.

Tuning and keys is something that often changes on stringed instruments while the relationship between notes always stays the same as long as we're talking about the equal division of the octave by 12.

Which means... instead of memorizing all the notes, just grab 2 or 3 to start with and start learning intervals. You will know where all the notes are and also their names without memorizing.

Numeric music theory is far more useful than solfege or staff notation. Know your numbers and train your ear, that's all.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2014 22:40:50

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

quote:

It is more important to understand how intervals work and how they relate to the fretboard than memorizing notes on the fretboard.

well, it's very easy to see, that there are plenty of ways to understand the fretboard, and the guitar in general. As each people is different each will prefer different ones. I doubt only one method will do it for anybody, but one should select what he wants to focus on. I personally like interactive softwares to learn with, so I started with FB Warrior. After that I went trough the Guitar Scales method (GSM software), and also train with a couple of others. Also use a program for ear training, but that runs on android.

If You prefer books there's a useful little one called "All scales in all positions"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 13:11:03

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to beno)

In no way did I advocate one method over another.. what you quoted me on are not different methods, they are different things.

In other words, if one doesn't know much about music theory, knowing the names of the notes on the fretboard isn't going to be a helpful trait. Knowing intervals and how the fretboard "geography" works is preferable and much more useful in all musical aspects.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 13:22:27

Brendan

Posts: 353
Joined: Oct. 30 2010

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

It's impossible to recommend much without knowing more about the student (musical background, cognitive style, etc.), but you might try this:

Teach him a little rumba tune, like Te Quiero Verde, in Em. Have him play it in as many different positions and left-hand fingerings as you can think of: in different octaves, all up one string, in a fixed position, left hand travelling a bit, variations with the melody starting on each left-hand finger, etc. Don't show him any more than you have to, make him pick it all out by ear. Do this over several sessions until he can play any of these variations on demand.

Then repeat in Am.

He won't learn the fretboard systematically from this, but he will spot common patterns and intervals, connect his knowledge of different regions of the fretboard, and play music. Then, when he uses a systematic method, it'll be filling in gaps rather than building from scratch and he'll have some musical experience to relate it to. Abstract learning tends not to stick if it doesn't relate to anything experienced.

I have no idea whether this will work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 16:05:24

archie640

Posts: 9
Joined: Dec. 10 2012
From: Bradford United Kingdom

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

Through my own experiece of teaching i have found if you teach a student a chord pattern, and then teach them the coresponing scale thats works very well. And then deveolp it further, you play the rhythem and they play lead based on the scale (for example e phygian or e minor first positioin backing E Amin B7 etc) Then swap the prosess around get them to play the rhythem and you play the lead, show them how to do it and hopfully over time they will grasp the concept of feeling the feel of music and improvisation. And when the the first posiion has been grasped move to other positions, IMO its better getting to grips with one position inside out and then develop further rather than learn the whole fret board half arsed and unacuplished one step at a time

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2015 22:22:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Guest)

No single rumbero plays convincingly the lead parts without a full grasp of all the flamenco palos. Even Manitas seemed to understand what makes a taranta vs a Malagueña despite his perhaps bad taste with mixing the forms in an unaccompanied solo. Never the less, when playing RUMBA, the lead players thinks interms of the flamenco forms when improvising over the compas backing. That means a song in E minor with what ever chords you want (Am, B7, Cmaj7, G, D7 etc) the lead player need not think like a jazz guy understand the neck in terms of scales....he need only think about GRANAINA, and play with the proper soniquete as per the rhythm section. If the guitar student does not understand what that means, then he will not sound like a Rumbero when he plays, he will sound more like Dimeola Mclaughlin, Coryell, Jessie Cook etc. If the intention is to sound more like Paco, Vicente, even Tonino from GK, then the student needs to study flamenco forms.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2015 13:06:04

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: fretboard methods (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

No single rumbero plays convincingly the lead parts without a full grasp of all the flamenco palos. Even Manitas seemed to understand what makes a taranta vs a Malagueña despite his perhaps bad taste with mixing the forms in an unaccompanied solo. Never the less, when playing RUMBA, the lead players thinks interms of the flamenco forms when improvising over the compas backing. That means a song in E minor with what ever chords you want (Am, B7, Cmaj7, G, D7 etc) the lead player need not think like a jazz guy understand the neck in terms of scales....he need only think about GRANAINA, and play with the proper soniquete as per the rhythm section. If the guitar student does not understand what that means, then he will not sound like a Rumbero when he plays, he will sound more like Dimeola Mclaughlin, Coryell, Jessie Cook etc. If the intention is to sound more like Paco, Vicente, even Tonino from GK, then the student needs to study flamenco forms.

Ricardo

Ricardo is like a father who descends upon the chaos, stops it, and leaves it a better and more knowledgeable place.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2015 15:43:41