Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Arpeggio

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timothy.meadows02

Posts: 13
Joined: May 28 2012

Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Arpeggio

Hi all,

I've been working on arpeggio technique and noticed when I play a thumb rest stroke at the same time as an I, M, or A it's kind of an awkward painful attack and the thumb plus I, M, or A notes never seem to happen exactly on the same beat. It's like a stutter and an inconsistent stutter at that.

Are thumb strokes in arpeggio supposed to be played tirando instead of apoyando when played on the same beat as an I, M, or A? I'm probably just really messing this up but thought I'd ask for help instead of wasting another week!

Best,

Tim

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 4:03:38

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

I think it is doable to use simultaneous rest strokes of pulgar & i, m, or a - however, it is indeed awkward & can tend to happen like the stutter you mention (though not necessarily inconsistent). Try the same thing in a picado run that needs a bass played simultaneously, and you'll see that is just as awkward. It can be done, but it needs practice, and I find using a free stroke for either the i/m/a or the pulgar makes things feel smoother. I think depending on whether you want one note to be emphasized more than another, you may at times need to use rest strokes for both, but also you can decide to let go & stick with a free stroke for either the i/m/a or pulgar (talking about picado + bass or arpeggio as you mentioned). For arpeggios in specific, I find I do mostly free strokes in your scenario.

I hope I was able to convey my ideas properly.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 20:06:57

timothy.meadows02

Posts: 13
Joined: May 28 2012

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to rombsix)

That's what I was hoping to hear! It was just too awkward to do it the way I was doing but I thought that I had read something about having to do that for flamenco arpeggio and couldn't tell in videos if it was right or not. I'm really psyched now to practice tirando pulgar and apoyando i,m, or a and then practicing it with tirando i,m, or a with apoyando pulgar to see what results I get after a month or so.

I really appreciate the help, Ramzi!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2014 1:53:29

hvymetal1234

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

Thumb (pulgar) is always rest stroke in arpegio. And pretty much everywhere else in flamenco. IMA in arpegio is free stroke. Practice will solve your issue.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2014 17:00:49

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

THis pattern is quite common for example:

P/a-m-i, a-m-i, a-m-i, a-m-i, P/a-m-i etc.

The a-m-i can always be tirando, but the P has to be rested and held down on the next string and must be absolutely perfectly synchronized, no break apart stutter as you say. It is simply a problem with the mind not wanting two things to happen at once, but it ends up feeling very secure and strong once you get it. Same deal with the i stroke down with the ring finger golpe, takes many students a while to get the feel for it, others get it right away.

As for doing picado with a rested bass, yes it can happen too very simply as a "pinching" feeling of both strings. Again it gets easy once you realize there is no physical barrier just the mind. For guitar students from the classical background, I use Bach Borree in E minor as an exercise to practice resting basses and picados. I show then 4 different ways to do it and the results of each have a different expression...later in flamenco falsetas we decide with taste which works best.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2014 21:12:17

aw2014

Posts: 13
Joined: Aug. 10 2014

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

I know this problem too. Maybe this is helpfull, http://canteytoque.es/pmiexc.htm
(Pluck) I use for excersise this TAB http://canteytoque.es/pmipluck16001.jpg
Only use reststrokes for Thumb and fingers, beginn very slowly , its hard stuff ;-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2014 9:11:05

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

I was taught that, when playing apoyando both on thumb and a, m or i, it is muy flamenco to keep the stutter. The thumb is played just before the beat and the finger marks the beat. If you think about dancer's feet it makes sense, you rarely see them jump to land both feet at exactly the same time - there is typically a rhythmic introduction to an accent. I play like that 99% of the time.

That said there is one sevillanas falsetta I play with a whole sequence of truely simultaneous notes on close strings. I gave up with rest strokes because both thumb and finger needed to rest on the same string and apoyando seemed overkill given that tirando permited better swing. I'll have to try the apoyando on thumb only idea with that, will be interesting to see how it goes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2014 12:14:21

timothy.meadows02

Posts: 13
Joined: May 28 2012

RE: Thumb Rest Stroke with IMA in Ar... (in reply to timothy.meadows02)

Wow, I really appreciate the help and recommendations on this! Also, nice to get some perspective on how to approach this when playing picado with pulgar playing bass notes at the same time. If the Bach Borree in E minor is anything like the 'pluck' exercise that aw2014 listed then I know it's going to be the bane of my existence but the only way to really make it feel natural and not awkward.

Flamenco guitar has been hilarious for me, the techniques take months to even sound close then years later realizing that it still isn't close to being right. lol

Thanks again for all the help; great feedback!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2014 14:46:20