Moraito's guitar for sale

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beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

Moraito's guitar for sale

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/guitarras-especiales/conde-moraito-64.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 13:51:13

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

Precio: Consultar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 14:54:07

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

O, si usted tiene que pedir no puede permitírmelo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 15:08:02

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Escribano)

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important, provided that he has not destroyed the guitar. Maybe I could buy it but I don´t want it: Faustino once offered me a media luna in the Gravina shop for 35,000 pesetas, but I couldn´t afford it. Since then, I have played only one Conde I liked, on sale for 4000 euros, but I didn´t buy it.

However I have a passing interest in the ridiculous. Until now the most expensive flamenco guitar has been the Gerundino of Eric Clapton, the fame mundial of Eric way above the fame of Gerundino.

A ver lo que pasa

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 15:27:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

I understand, though I didn't mean you specifically. It is a suggested alternative for the seller's "Precio: Consultar"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 15:36:52

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important

Except to the extent that he might be expected to have chosen a good one.

In London there’s an amateur classical guitarist called Paul Durham, well known to all the top luthiers in England and Spain. He has the most the most amazing ear for a good guitar that I’ve ever come across; but whichever he has, he eventually finds some fault with it, sells it and gets another one.

So that if you wanted a great classical guitar, all you had to do was wait till he got tired of the current one, and then buy it. I’ve known him since I was a teenager, and almost every single classical guitar I’ve owned* (after the first beginner model) came from Paul.

He was mentioned in Guitar International as having owned more top-name guitars than any other person

http://www.guitarnz.info/html/nz_guitar_history.html

*Except one Ramírez, which was a mistake. In the ’80s he sold me a Joaquín García that I’m totally happy with, so now I’m off the treadmill.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 16:12:11

Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

That's amazing-everyone should have access to a fellow like that. But being a left hander, he would be of limited value to me. It's strange not being able to evaluate many guitars as to playability and feel. I'm on the waiting list for what I hope is the greatest guitar I've ever owned or played. terms are all the money up front, no returns, because it's going to be left handed. Electric guitars not much better. I'd love to get a gibson jazz box, but lefty ones are rare and expensive, and not often available locally. Buying a guitar for 5k plus online is a huge act of faith, no matter the label. If I was right handed, I could pick from dozens of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important

Except to the extent that he might be expected to have chosen a good one.

In London there’s an amateur classical guitarist called Paul Durham, well known to all the top luthiers in England and Spain. He has the most the most amazing ear for a good guitar that I’ve ever come across; but whichever he has, he eventually finds some fault with it, sells it and gets another one.

So that if you wanted a great classical guitar, all you had to do was wait till he got tired of the current one, and then buy it. I’ve known him since I was a teenager, and almost every single classical guitar I’ve owned* (after the first beginner model) came from Paul.

He was mentioned in Guitar International as having owned more top-name guitars than any other person

http://www.guitarnz.info/html/nz_guitar_history.html

*Except one Ramírez, which was a mistake. In the ’80s he sold me a Joaquín García that I’m totally happy with, so now I’m off the treadmill.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 16:35:44

jamh2000

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 13 2012

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

Well for once we have a good quality demo recording on that site! I think it's a pretty exceptional sounding guitar but showing some signs of age- not as taut as it probably once was.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 18:20:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important,

Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.

Now prices are another matter entirely.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 20:54:54

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work.

Me too. Now this is one of those times when, if Ron were still writing (I don't say "still with us", because of course he is) he would come on all "scientific" and totally deny any such possibility!
But the effect of the player on the instrument's development is well known, not just with guitars.

However... I wonder how long the embedded mojo of the previous owner would last, once the instrument is played for a while by someone of lesser magical powers.
And, yeah - price is another matter.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 21:22:59

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this.

Not crazy at all: the aforementioned Paul Durham calls it “putting music into the guitar”. Many people have noticed it.

P.S. And of course that’s another reason to buy Paul’s old instruments

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 21:26:19

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.

Of course there is a reason a particular guitar was chosen by someone with great aptitude in the first place...;-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 22:10:04

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.

Now prices are another matter entirely.

I agree with you... "just a guitar" be damned, I would give my right leg for that guitar. I bet there is quantum duende imprinted on every atom of that thing.

In all seriousness if I were rich I could imagine myself paying pretty ridiculous sums for the guitar. I've always admired the sound.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2014 22:25:08

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I guess we notice the same for all wood instruments.

I think that the wood "learns" to resonate certain way over time when repeated played by a same player. So if played well it gets accustomed to resonating to THAT kind of "frequency" or vibration as opposed to learning to resonate to poor sound/techniques.

So if we gave Vicente's Reyes to a random guy at youtube and checked it out 10 years later maybe it would sound sh*t.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 1:01:31

davidheis_24

Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 4 2011
From: QLD AUS

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to por medio)

i think its just the placebo affect which can be pretty powerful,
i dont think wood can "learn" to always play 10/10 for a 10/10 player then change after a while to 5/10 for a 5/10 player after a while, itd just settle down to the environment its exposed to like the weather and player. if i put the best player in the world on my guitar he wont improve its qualities, an E string gives the same frequency weather i play it or i drop the guitar on the ground

plus the guitar would be good by itself thats why great players use them, i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal

i bet they'll try and can get 30,000 euros for this guitar, using moraitos association with it, someone will probably pay it too

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 1:28:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

Same site, Parrilla's guitar is for sale too. Rough times no doubt.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 3:26:42

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to davidheis_24)

quote:

i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal

Exactly. What about faires at the end of the garden?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 15:52:57

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to davidheis_24)

quote:

i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal

That could be explained by either hypothesis.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 16:26:00

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

Either way, it's still Moraito's guitar, probably his favorite one. You would own a big piece of flamenco history. It's not like it's his old toothbrush or something

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 16:58:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I wouldn't mind having that cool shirt he is wearing (in flamenco flamenco too). He had that on when I met him in Sanlucar 2007.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 17:28:33

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Either way, it's still Moraito's guitar, probably his favorite one. You would own a big piece of flamenco history.

I used to own a historic guitar: a beautiful peghead from Mario Melero de San Fernando. (Another ex Camaron Melero is in a glass case in the Peña de Camaron). This one used to belong to El Niño de los Rizos, who used it to accompany Caracol.

A young gaditano tocaor, Oscar Lago, used to visit me, fell in love with the guitar and pestered me to sell it to him. Eventually , since he is a great friend and I thought that a historic Gaditana guitarra should be in the hands on a gaditano, I sold it to him for a token amount.

He played it on stage for a while, then, for fear of damaging it or having it stolen, he bought a Conde.

Now he comes to visit with the Melero and plays me a private concert.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 18:12:45

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.

RIP Moraito, a simply beautiful soul.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2014 18:46:36

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Cloth Ears)

quote:

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.

Curiously, this is a useful length for flamenco, which is normally played with a cejilla, sometimes on fret 7. Many of Faustino´s great guitars had this scale length. I have played one, which was only uncomfortable in the open position.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 11:39:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.

Curiously, this is a useful length for flamenco, which is normally played with a cejilla, sometimes on fret 7. Many of Faustino´s great guitars had this scale length. I have played one, which was only uncomfortable in the open position.

The one I have is like that, but honestly even in open position is not so bad. Anyone seriously shocked to imagine such a scale length should try playing bass guitar.

My only warning about these guitars is that there is ZERO compensation. It's no problem if you know how to play IMO.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 13:07:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Anyone seriously shocked to imagine such a scale length should try playing bass guitar.

Fretless, for even larger stretches

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 13:28:22

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I had a 660mm guitar that was modified to 670mm by the previous owner, and then I changed it back to 660mm. I had no problems with it except for the string tension.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 13:38:25

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to beno)

nice topic for a single link

I'm also believer that we leave our energy's traces around regardless what physics say. I don't want to own that guitar, but would like to try it...
can be full of aire

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 13:48:27

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Morante)

Ahh...I see where you are coming from Morante. That makes sense and I bet those rasguedos are extra punchy.

lol Ricardo... I would like to see you play flamenco on a six string bass!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 16:52:36

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (in reply to Cloth Ears)

Nitpicking about scale lenght and "hand/finger spread" has nothing to do with flamenco or any genre in particular.

It's all about comparisons which, most of the time, serve no other purpose than being an excuse for you not to play the guitar (or any instrument) until you've found the perfect setting (will never happen because YOU are the problem lol).

Stop being a problem and just play the thing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2014 17:31:19