Moraito's guitar for sale (Full Version)

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beno -> Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 13:51:13)

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/es/guitarras-flamencas/guitarras-especiales/conde-moraito-64.html



Morante -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 14:54:07)

Precio: Consultar[:D]



Escribano -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 15:08:02)

O, si usted tiene que pedir no puede permitírmelo [8|]



Morante -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 15:27:03)

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important, provided that he has not destroyed the guitar. Maybe I could buy it but I don´t want it: Faustino once offered me a media luna in the Gravina shop for 35,000 pesetas, but I couldn´t afford it. Since then, I have played only one Conde I liked, on sale for 4000 euros, but I didn´t buy it.

However I have a passing interest in the ridiculous. Until now the most expensive flamenco guitar has been the Gerundino of Eric Clapton, the fame mundial of Eric way above the fame of Gerundino.

A ver lo que pasa[:D]



Escribano -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 15:36:52)

I understand, though I didn't mean you specifically. It is a suggested alternative for the seller's "Precio: Consultar" [:D]



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 16:12:11)

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important


Except to the extent that he might be expected to have chosen a good one.

In London there’s an amateur classical guitarist called Paul Durham, well known to all the top luthiers in England and Spain. He has the most the most amazing ear for a good guitar that I’ve ever come across; but whichever he has, he eventually finds some fault with it, sells it and gets another one.

So that if you wanted a great classical guitar, all you had to do was wait till he got tired of the current one, and then buy it. I’ve known him since I was a teenager, and almost every single classical guitar I’ve owned* (after the first beginner model) came from Paul.

He was mentioned in Guitar International as having owned more top-name guitars than any other person [:D]

http://www.guitarnz.info/html/nz_guitar_history.html

*Except one Ramírez, which was a mistake. In the ’80s he sold me a Joaquín García that I’m totally happy with, so now I’m off the treadmill.



Mark2 -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 16:35:44)

That's amazing-everyone should have access to a fellow like that. But being a left hander, he would be of limited value to me. It's strange not being able to evaluate many guitars as to playability and feel. I'm on the waiting list for what I hope is the greatest guitar I've ever owned or played. terms are all the money up front, no returns, because it's going to be left handed. Electric guitars not much better. I'd love to get a gibson jazz box, but lefty ones are rare and expensive, and not often available locally. Buying a guitar for 5k plus online is a huge act of faith, no matter the label. If I was right handed, I could pick from dozens of them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important


Except to the extent that he might be expected to have chosen a good one.

In London there’s an amateur classical guitarist called Paul Durham, well known to all the top luthiers in England and Spain. He has the most the most amazing ear for a good guitar that I’ve ever come across; but whichever he has, he eventually finds some fault with it, sells it and gets another one.

So that if you wanted a great classical guitar, all you had to do was wait till he got tired of the current one, and then buy it. I’ve known him since I was a teenager, and almost every single classical guitar I’ve owned* (after the first beginner model) came from Paul.

He was mentioned in Guitar International as having owned more top-name guitars than any other person [:D]

http://www.guitarnz.info/html/nz_guitar_history.html

*Except one Ramírez, which was a mistake. In the ’80s he sold me a Joaquín García that I’m totally happy with, so now I’m off the treadmill.



jamh2000 -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 18:20:24)

Well for once we have a good quality demo recording on that site! I think it's a pretty exceptional sounding guitar but showing some signs of age- not as taut as it probably once was.



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 20:54:54)

quote:

Well, to me me a guitar is just a guitar: the previous owner is not important,


Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.

Now prices are another matter entirely.


Ricardo



Estevan -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 21:22:59)

quote:

I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work.

Me too. Now this is one of those times when, if Ron were still writing (I don't say "still with us", because of course he is) he would come on all "scientific" and totally deny any such possibility!
But the effect of the player on the instrument's development is well known, not just with guitars.

However... I wonder how long the embedded mojo of the previous owner would last, once the instrument is played for a while by someone of lesser magical powers.
And, yeah - price is another matter.



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 21:26:19)

quote:

I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this.


Not crazy at all: the aforementioned Paul Durham calls it “putting music into the guitar”. Many people have noticed it.

P.S. And of course that’s another reason to buy Paul’s old instruments [8D]



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 22:10:04)

quote:

Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.


Of course there is a reason a particular guitar was chosen by someone with great aptitude in the first place...;-)



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 2 2014 22:25:08)

quote:

Guess it's time for me to come clean with my opinion. I know it sounds crazy but I am 100% sure that a guitar is ALL about this. I have experienced too many times the fact that a guitar takes on a "magic" energy of sorts after being played hard. Or rather if it is played poorly or treated bad, it sounds and feels like crap, but a guitar owned by a real maestro or serious artists takes on very positive qualities of sound and feel. Regardless of make or model I have seen this crazy voodoo at work. I can only imagine the amazing duende such an instrument as Moraito's posseses.

Now prices are another matter entirely.



I agree with you... "just a guitar" be damned, I would give my right leg for that guitar. I bet there is quantum duende imprinted on every atom of that thing.

In all seriousness if I were rich I could imagine myself paying pretty ridiculous sums for the guitar. I've always admired the sound.



por medio -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 1:01:31)

I guess we notice the same for all wood instruments.

I think that the wood "learns" to resonate certain way over time when repeated played by a same player. So if played well it gets accustomed to resonating to THAT kind of "frequency" or vibration as opposed to learning to resonate to poor sound/techniques.

So if we gave Vicente's Reyes to a random guy at youtube and checked it out 10 years later maybe it would sound sh*t.



davidheis_24 -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 1:28:06)

i think its just the placebo affect which can be pretty powerful,
i dont think wood can "learn" to always play 10/10 for a 10/10 player then change after a while to 5/10 for a 5/10 player after a while, itd just settle down to the environment its exposed to like the weather and player. if i put the best player in the world on my guitar he wont improve its qualities, an E string gives the same frequency weather i play it or i drop the guitar on the ground

plus the guitar would be good by itself thats why great players use them, i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal

i bet they'll try and can get 30,000 euros for this guitar, using moraitos association with it, someone will probably pay it too



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 3:26:42)

Same site, Parrilla's guitar is for sale too. Rough times no doubt.



Morante -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 15:52:57)

quote:

i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal


Exactly. What about faires at the end of the garden?[:D]



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 16:26:00)

quote:

i played manuel valencias conde and i sounded great from the first strum then i went back to my guitar and everything was back to normal


That could be explained by either hypothesis.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 16:58:09)

Either way, it's still Moraito's guitar, probably his favorite one. You would own a big piece of flamenco history. It's not like it's his old toothbrush or something[:D]



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 17:28:33)

I wouldn't mind having that cool shirt he is wearing (in flamenco flamenco too). He had that on when I met him in Sanlucar 2007.



Morante -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 18:12:45)

quote:

Either way, it's still Moraito's guitar, probably his favorite one. You would own a big piece of flamenco history.


I used to own a historic guitar: a beautiful peghead from Mario Melero de San Fernando. (Another ex Camaron Melero is in a glass case in the Peña de Camaron). This one used to belong to El Niño de los Rizos, who used it to accompany Caracol.

A young gaditano tocaor, Oscar Lago, used to visit me, fell in love with the guitar and pestered me to sell it to him. Eventually , since he is a great friend and I thought that a historic Gaditana guitarra should be in the hands on a gaditano, I sold it to him for a token amount.

He played it on stage for a while, then, for fear of damaging it or having it stolen, he bought a Conde.

Now he comes to visit with the Melero and plays me a private concert.[:)]



Cloth Ears -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 3 2014 18:46:36)

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.


RIP Moraito, a simply beautiful soul.



Morante -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 11:39:55)

quote:

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.


Curiously, this is a useful length for flamenco, which is normally played with a cejilla, sometimes on fret 7. Many of Faustino´s great guitars had this scale length. I have played one, which was only uncomfortable in the open position.



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 13:07:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

670mm scale length *shock*

I heard of 664mm once and thought that was over the top.

Even the string tension at 660mm is excessive.


Curiously, this is a useful length for flamenco, which is normally played with a cejilla, sometimes on fret 7. Many of Faustino´s great guitars had this scale length. I have played one, which was only uncomfortable in the open position.


The one I have is like that, but honestly even in open position is not so bad. Anyone seriously shocked to imagine such a scale length should try playing bass guitar. [8|] My only warning about these guitars is that there is ZERO compensation. It's no problem if you know how to play IMO.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 13:28:22)

quote:

Anyone seriously shocked to imagine such a scale length should try playing bass guitar.


Fretless, for even larger stretches [:D]



tele -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 13:38:25)

I had a 660mm guitar that was modified to 670mm by the previous owner, and then I changed it back to 660mm. I had no problems with it except for the string tension.



beno -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 13:48:27)

nice topic for a single link [:D]
I'm also believer that we leave our energy's traces around regardless what physics say. I don't want to own that guitar, but would like to try it...
can be full of aire



Cloth Ears -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 16:52:36)

Ahh...I see where you are coming from Morante. That makes sense and I bet those rasguedos are extra punchy.

lol Ricardo... I would like to see you play flamenco on a six string bass! [:D]



Sr. Martins -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 17:31:19)

Nitpicking about scale lenght and "hand/finger spread" has nothing to do with flamenco or any genre in particular.

It's all about comparisons which, most of the time, serve no other purpose than being an excuse for you not to play the guitar (or any instrument) until you've found the perfect setting (will never happen because YOU are the problem lol).


Stop being a problem and just play the thing.



beno -> RE: Moraito's guitar for sale (Dec. 4 2014 17:43:36)

quote:

Stop being a problem and just play the thing.

well said....



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