Cypress top

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Cypress top

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eitanfar

Posts: 68
Joined: Oct. 16 2014

Cypress top

Hi all,

I read somewhere that Sabicas used to play a blanca with solid cypress top (as well as sides and back).
However, I didn't really see such guitars being made these days (only looked at brand names though).
What's the pros and cons of a solid cypress top ? I guess that if it was that good, people would be buying such guitars today, right ?
Also, isn't cypress a bit too soft to be used as a top ?

Thanks,
Eitan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 7:19:15

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Cypress top (in reply to eitanfar)

sabicas may have played a cypress top but he is known for playing a ramirez with a red western cedar top for many years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 8:50:09

eitanfar

Posts: 68
Joined: Oct. 16 2014

RE: Cypress top (in reply to keith)

That's true, but not really answers my question. Thanks anyway though !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 10:18:19

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Cypress top (in reply to eitanfar)

Interested to hear the responses. I have never heard of a cypress top.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 12:21:09

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Cypress top (in reply to eitanfar)

Chamaecyparis lawsoniana (Lawson cypress) is a species of conifer in the genus Chamaecyparis, family Cupressaceae, native to Oregon and California. It occurs from sea level up to 1,500 m (4,900 ft) in the Klamath Mountains valleys, often along streams. It is called Port Orford cedar in its native locality.

I have built one flamenco top with this wood and it works just fine with a thin top, due to the stiffness of the wood. But Spruce and Cedar are the most common woods used.

http://www.classicguitar.com/f-07Blackshear.html

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 14:09:17

estebanana

Posts: 9365
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Cypress top (in reply to eitanfar)

Port Orford makes good steel string tops too. I have a couple backs left, but no more ribs for the three of four backs might become steel string tops!

Also curious, but it might makes good classical guitar, but I expect it would sound like cedar more than spruce.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 14:20:48

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Cypress top (in reply to estebanana)

I believe that Bob Ruck built several classical guitars with Port Orford cedar tops, that turned out fine. I have yet to build a total cedar guitar with this wood, though I have built a total red cedar guitar a few times.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 14:38:42

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Cypress top (in reply to estebanana)

I've heard of using Port Orford Cedar for tops but I've never seen a piece that I would consider a good candidate. All of it I've handled including the one set I have left has a tap tone about as interesting as balsa maybe I've just been unlucky. It's a nice wood otherwise, mills well and seems stable. I suppose it would be a good substitute for cypress but the price is about the same so why bother?

Re: cypress for tops
I've heard of using it and used to have a vinyl recording of a flamenco guitarist playing a guitar with a cypress top if I recall correctly his name was Bernabe de Moron. In the photo of him holding his guitar it certainly didn't look like a spruce top however I've never seen a piece of cypress that I would consider for topwood.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 14:39:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14829
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cypress top (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

Chamaecyparis lawsoniana (Lawson cypress) is a species of conifer in the genus Chamaecyparis, family Cupressaceae, native to Oregon and California. It occurs from sea level up to 1,500 m (4,900 ft) in the Klamath Mountains valleys, often along streams. It is called Port Orford cedar in its native locality.

I have built one flamenco top with this wood and it works just fine with a thin top, due to the stiffness of the wood. But Spruce and Cedar are the most common woods used.

http://www.classicguitar.com/f-07Blackshear.html

Wait, Lawson cypress and port orford are the exact same wood??? Why do the examples I am familiar with look completely different?? The lawson having quite dramatic figuring and the port orford being more plain like normal cypress?
EDIT: OK I found examples of fine grained POC vs CURLY POC...they look so different.

I suspect the the statement about sabicas is a miss print, intending to describe the back and sides of the guitar. John Mclaughlin had a cool looking nylon string guitar with a maple top....oooops never mind it's "flamed" spruce

http://www.abrahamwechter.com/more-guitars/our-lady/

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 16:30:58

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Cypress top (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Wait, Lawson cypress and port orford are the exact same wood??? Why do the examples I am familiar with look completely different?? The lawson having quite dramatic figuring and the port orford being more plain like normal cypress?

Lawson cypress and Port Orford cedar are the same. What you may be looking at is slab cut opposed to quarter cut wood. The quartered wood is used for guitar tops; sometimes slab cut for sides and backs.

Port Orford cedar is of the family of cypress not a real cedar like western red cedar. It could be that it developed its cedar name from its ginger like aroma.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/port-orford-cedar/

I have some nicely quartered wood in my shop but it's not for sale, as it is very hard to get. In other words, I would like to keep it for my own building purposes.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 18:20:13

timoteo

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Cypress top (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Port Orford cedar is of the family of cypress not a real cedar like western red cedar. It could be that it developed its cedar name from its ginger like aroma.

Western Redcedar isn't a true cedar either - it's in the same cypress family (Cupressaceae) as Port Orford and Yellow Cedar. True cedars are in the Cedrus family, like the Deodar Cedar and the Lebanon Cedar.

The foliage and bark of the Port Orford cedar is similar enough to the Western Redcedar (and other species) that it seems natural to group them together, but as to why entire classes of cypresses have "cedar" in their common name, that's a mystery. I would speculate it was named by someone who had never seen a true cedar, but knew that cedars were majestic conifers and thought these fit the bill.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2014 18:51:57