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mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

cherry wood blancas? 


anyone have an opinion on cherry wood blancas v cypress?

the tone produced by the cherry sounded a little sharp to me, but i don't really know what i'm talking about when it comes to lutherie

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2014 21:48:27
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
I sometimes watch his videos and I enjoy them for a few different reasons.

Overall, my ears tell me that all those guitars sound the same, only the colors change but the sonic character is basically the same.

I don't like that sound, might be because of the room he is in but to me, everything sounds too sharp and plastic, boomy... crappy maybe?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2014 22:49:29
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Pathetic! This idiot has been trying to distinguish himself in any way possible in the world of Flamenco for years now. I watched the entire video and his comparison consisted of playing single note solos over the same backing track. This sort of thing isn't even part of the genre. Why not offer a comparison of himself accompanying a cantaor or bailora?...

If RD wants to be taken seriously he should move to an area in Spain known for Flamenco and impress the people who are best able to validate his opinions.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 1:30:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Cypress vs. Cherry. All this means is that he got a deal on a lot of cherry backs and sides and is now trying to sell them.

Who wants a fire engine red guitar with white fingerboard? There it is!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 4:02:13
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco) 
More pathetic are people who pay money for those guitars...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

Pathetic! This idiot has been trying to distinguish himself in any way possible in the world of Flamenco for years now. I watched the entire video and his comparison consisted of playing single note solos over the same backing track. This sort of thing isn't even part of the genre. Why not offer a comparison of himself accompanying a cantaor or bailora?...

If RD wants to be taken seriously he should move to an area in Spain known for Flamenco and impress the people who are best able to validate his opinions.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 9:44:58
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to tele) 
tele, unfortunately a lot of folks get sucked in on a lot of products be it fire engine red guitars or stainless steel body automobiles.

cherry is a nice wood that has good guitar building qualities however painting a guitar top cherry red seems to be a thing done on low budget steel string guitars and not classical/flamenco guitars. i cannot think of a company other than bellucci/mangore that i wouid not touch with a ten foot pole.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 10:04:04
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to keith) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

tele, unfortunately a lot of folks get sucked in on a lot of products be it fire engine red guitars or stainless steel body automobiles.

cherry is a nice wood that has good guitar building qualities however painting a guitar top cherry red seems to be a thing done on low budget steel string guitars and not classical/flamenco guitars. i cannot think of a company other than bellucci/mangore that i wouid not touch with a ten foot pole.


Yeah those people just don't bother comparing products and are willing to pay the same bucks for a piece of --- vs a masterbuilt item. These andelusional guitars cost alot of money... The toy in the video would set one back 4200 euros, 1200 more than that of a master builder. A scam made for the fools willing to pay even for a piece of ---

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 10:45:28
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
He's a better salesman than I am. Somedays that seems like good thing. But guitars should sell themselves without a lot of talk.

But the basic premise of cherry wood vs. cypress...and cypress being obsolete, plain silly. Cypress is a great back & sides wood, and Cherry is also good. But Cherry is also slightly soft. I'd make guitars of both Cherry and Cypress, but I would never say something categorically decisive as Cherry trumps Cypress, that is just silly talk.

Each of those woods can make a darn good guitar, but I'd go with Cypress. As long as cherry is on the table why not talk about European Pear and English Sycamore? Both comparable to Cherry.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 12:47:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
why in gods name people continue linking to this guys psycho babble?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 14:17:44
 
hopkinWFG

 

Posts: 57
Joined: Jun. 10 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to estebanana) 
well i have seen his video alot of times... he has gotten his insight on modern flamencas VS traditional flamencas ... i have no comments on his wild playing but perhaps taken out the traditional view, this guitar andalusian guitars are really an eye candy ! very sexy approach with birdseye maple fretboard ;)

but maybe not deem fit to be as a traditional player and the price for one its so expensive lol...

however i like how he the video he made comparing good and bad build guitars... from string saddle which is not evenly spaced to a lacquered and non lacquered saddle..

and the sound board which is not caved in as seen from the side, he too mentioned about the bulged up sound board after the saddle that can be seen from the side...

i wonder if anybody would further advise on for guitarist who wants to pick his or her quality guitars among the batch....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 15:24:09
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to hopkinWFG) 
Oh, that video was cool!

I loved how he pushed the strings out of alignment on those other two guitars before shooting the video

I agree with the lacquered bridges. I hate when I hear a lacquered bridge flamenco album.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 15:30:00
 
hopkinWFG

 

Posts: 57
Joined: Jun. 10 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
Mmmm haha... i am also in a learning process maybe Mr Stephan could chime in for better advise ;)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 15:41:06
 
bernd

 

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
He plays both guitars differently. He is playing the cypres one with the thumb and the cherry one with the nails. With the other music that´s playing while he plays, he detracts off the individual guitar sound. The way he is presenting the guitars in this video is no good job, it´s a blow job! After having seen how he talks bad generally on manufactured guitars I haven´t expected anything else.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 16:33:31
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
The sound finally fully matches the look of his guitars.

It looks like what he has done is to use a very light bridge and gigantic soundport, making the guitars sound loud but in actuality they are super trebly and out of balance, lacking depth. Not good IMO when you consider the price.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 5 2014 19:58:21
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
In 6 months, there will be a new video saying that cypress and cherry are crap
and Basswood is the best wood for everything.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2014 6:40:53
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to hopkinWFG) 
quote:

Mmmm haha... i am also in a learning process maybe Mr Stephan could chime in for better advise ;)


Ask Andy if you should study these guitars as examples of Spanish workmanship and style.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2014 7:03:44
 
Wayne Brown

 

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Ummmm! I've been planning my next flamenco guitar build using cherry from my stash. Think I'll forego the fire engine red though!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2014 13:53:15
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to Wayne Brown) 
quote:

Ummmm! I've been planning my next flamenco guitar build using cherry from my stash. Think I'll forego the fire engine red though!


I would love to see/hear how it turns out. I've thought about using cherry for a while as it's pretty abundant around here.
A couple years ago a well known luthier near me was sawing up a big billet of cherry and promised me a set, but I never got around to collecting it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 6 2014 17:53:18
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Oak and Cherry wood used to be quite normal woods for American made steel string parlour guitarssirca 1900's 1920's, throw in Pear and Apple wood to go with the cherry they are all similar fruit woods.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 2:54:36
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
I want dragon fruit top with durian back and sides!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 4:35:10
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
You can built great guitars out of many kinds of wood. But it can be difficult to sell them. Flamenco guitar clients are notoriously conservative and few builders or sellers are shameless enough to do what the dude in the pink shirt is doing. I think he´s that shameless because he´s not a builder himself and he has very little respect for the craft and those who build the guitars.
BTW, nobody has mentioned his name (or his title ) in this thread.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 7:38:40
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
I'm with Anders. I have heard guitars made from oil cans sound pretty good but flamenco is very conservative and traditional market.

A different choice of wood is hardly groundbreaking and a red stain with a weird headstock is going to make the job harder by raising the expectations of a sceptical audience, based purely on looks. In a non-flamenco setting this may be of no concern, as long as you have the cape and a hat with a feather sticking out.

Calling cypress an 'obsolete concept' is enough of a conceit to warn anyone off.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 9:42:20
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to Escribano) 
When it comes to Oak, American White Oak that is not Silver Oak which is technically not a Oak but an evergreen but American White Oak and English Oak for steel string acoustic guitars make amazing guitars. Some of the most revered guitar makers in the USA, including Alan Carruth and John Arnold have said some of their finest guitars have been made from American White Oak, the problem they have is not making great guitars from such a tonewood but selling one.

I've not played any flamenco/nylon strings made from cherry, but I've played quite a few high end Cherry acoustic guitars. It's a decent tonewood, not one of my favourites but it's a little like Mahogany/Sapele.

I believe the issue of sustainability really needs to be addressed by guitar makers, as in years to come be it 20 or 30 or maybe more or less I can imagine luthiers will not have access to a lot of rainforest woods such as Ebony, Honduran Cedar, maybe even Cypress (I hear most comes from Turkey now) will go the way of Spanish Cypress and I've heard some worrying things about East Indian Rosewood too.

There are some great woods out there which make great guitars but seem to be unfashionable right now, I believe a time will come when there will be little option but to use them.

I realise I am discussing an alternate matter to the one initially started!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 10:39:49
 
tri7/5

 

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Played a Cherry solid body electric for a time. It's quite hard and heavy like maple and has a similar tone but not quite as bright somewhat between Ash and Maple.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 13:03:03
 
SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014
 

Caveat Emptor (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Who wants a fire engine red guitar with white fingerboard?


If you think about a little further, Fender has been selling light color necks on bright red guitars since the 1950's.
Could be this individual is now targeting the less than informed electric guitarist market.

For an example: A guy with a red Telecaster with a maple neck might want an acoustic guitar to match it, with no regard to what is under the hood.

My point being he is targeting impulse buyers.

"Caveat Emptor!"

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Rick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 14:46:11
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: cherry wood blancas? (in reply to mark74) 
Ebony and rosewood are getting expensive.

Maple seems to be the cheap new alternative that grows fast. Baked maple seems to be very popular nowadays on electric guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 7 2014 15:23:55
 
carlolee

 

Posts: 20
Joined: Jul. 1 2014
 

RE: Caveat Emptor (in reply to SephardRick) 
Once I thought about taking lessons with him hence I live in Ronda, and I prefer Juan Martin of course.

I also know Niño Seve from Cordoba and I ask him because he also plays these guitars
he told me that he knows friends in Spain that really buy in more than 10,000 bucks, I mean guitars like this

you maybe don’t know, but this guy came even to the extent of saying that Paco PDL did not like his Conde guitar

and I checked the link he posted from El Pais and unfortunately its true, here you can see
http://www.elpais.com.uy/divertite/musica/guitarra-desagradecida.html
Sometimes marketing makes wonders, the other day I counted more than 300 guitars in his youtube channel, it make me sick…
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 8 2014 19:15:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14820
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Caveat Emptor (in reply to carlolee) 
quote:

and I checked the link he posted from El Pais and unfortunately its true, here you can see


unfortunately people read things like that and don't know the whole deal about paco and his guitars. People forget already the same quote from some other magazine years back where he says the guitar has superior tone and projection, and didn't like to play it at home because it was HARD to play, that's all. It has a stiffer action but sounds good, but he would rather play a ****ty sounding guitar at home that is easy to play. That's all there is to it. Anybody that plays a lot live knows when you are nervous you can play too hard at times and easy low action guitars often give out. THat's the nervous energy thing he talks about, so such a guitar as his is not so fun at home but delivers the goods on stage (obviously).

And to go back further, this guitar and the one he used right before this with guitar trio 1980 are replacements for his FAVORITE guitar that was stolen in 1979 from his car...also a Conde negra from 70's. So he found replacements for his BEST guitar that were very similar....but the BS that he hated the guitar etc is a cute exageration he liked to make, calling guitars in general his enemy etc because they make him work hard. People need to get a grip.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 8 2014 19:23:18
 
SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014
 

RE: Caveat Emptor (in reply to carlolee) 
quote:

Sometimes marketing makes wonders, the other day I counted more than 300 guitars in his youtube channel, it make me sick


I know how you feel. At least we have accomplished professionals like Ricardo setting the record straight. Ricardo's honesty, integrity, and experience is a great wealth of knowledge.

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Rick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 8 2014 21:00:50
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Caveat Emptor (in reply to SephardRick) 
Come on guys if you know a man who plays guitar really well and he'll let you video him for a few bucks AND you own a Spanish football top then well you just gotta be honest and knowledgeable. Surely then people should be glad to pay ten times market value for anything you profit from.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 8 2014 21:51:03
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