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Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
¿quien canta mejor flamenco los git...
heres something interesting that just came up and there is a lot of chat about this at the moment ...Potito insulting ''Los Payos'' and then apologizing when the video was published ... but there has always been this discussion ... heres a few videos to show you what i mean .. but there are a lot more ..
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to El Kiko)
Also, three of the most popular singing styles, rumbas, sevillanas and fandangos, are not gypsy and are payo in origin. Tangos may be also, but I could be wrong
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to El Kiko)
Obviously the gitanos can be considered originals but also alot of people who consider themselves gypsies in andalucia are actually only partially "sangre gitano" since there's so much mixture of cultures and ancestry. Even if there would be gitano families who follow the rule of getting a gitano wife/husband, there's still a good chance the wife/husband is a "mezcla"(mixture) with arab, european and whatever else lineages there are in andalucia. So gitano puro might be a rare thing these days... Paco de lucia says in moscow concert interview that when he was young he hanged out with gypsies, sort of wanting to be one of them and when he grew up he realized he's not a gypsy but it doesn't make his art any lesser(but he's not a singer though)
If a person sings well or plays the guitar well he might be just as well from papua new guinea, what matters is not his looks or where his or her parents come from but skills. But it's obvious that gitanos are the majority of the famous flamenco artists, but after all it's a gitano art
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to El Kiko)
Juan Breva, Silverio Franconetti, Antonio Chacon, Aurelio de Cadiz, Pepe el de la Matrona, Manuel Vallejo, Jacinto Almaden, Fosforito, Jose Menese are/were just some of the payo cantaores who enjoyed considerable success over the years. My own sense is that gitano singers, as a general rule, offer more expressively emotional performances of the various palos that lend themselves to a more emotional interpretation and delivery (Dionysian). The payo singers tend to be more focused on a certain tranquility of delivery, especially of cante andaluz palos (Apollonian) that offers often a welcome contrast to the Sturm und Drang of a long session with, say, Terremoto and Morao. Some gitano singers, like especially Rafael Romero and Jose de la Tomasa, can easily move back and forth between these two approaches. And, at their best, the two old-time payo masters, Pepe de la Matrona and Aurelio Selles (Aurelio de Cadiz), both born in the same year, are just a delight for me to listen to, especially singing gitano palos like soleares and siguiriyas--a quite different approach than, say, Agujetas or Camaron. Thank goodness we have access to so much choice.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
Uh, troll post?
No you are wrong ... I wouldnt let it get that way .. i would delete the whole thread rather than let it happen ..
Although the original video is a few years old , this has came back on him again online just recently ...for those who are following things in Spain ..
it has reopened an opinion on gitanos, and Andalucians, but non - gitanos , and Spanish , non gitano and non Andalucian ...and I suppose the rest of the world .
The thought was first of all a cultural thing .. arguments being singing about something that you have not actually lived through or felt would affect how much passion you could put into it ... There is a whole wealth of posts slamming Potito for being so crude and black and white about it ..... whether his apology is genuine or not , I would think that he has put it out to protect himself and not get jeered so much , things like this can follow a guy for years to come even if an apology was accepted by all ...
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to Ricardo)
I'm with Ricardo Pachon. There's a million to one chance that anyone will look at this, given that it's in Spanish, but from 30:00 onwards Don Ricardo talks about Morente, and, in a very respectful and well-mannered fashion, he points out that, "Cuando canta, no duele…"
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to changue)
cuando cante, no duele ,, well yes ,. but he is looking a lot in this entrevista at modern flamenco and different fusions ...
after that ,, he says that he cannot sing , bulerias , and has a lot of problems with the timing in Soleares .., and that genetically he cant sing flamenco ... so there you go ...
He likes Enrique Morente ,, he likes his voice , and his vision of flamenco ..etc
.. but he will never sing bulerias in his life ....he doesnt know how to .... genetically he cant carry the compas of bulerias ....Im sorry , i like him a lot , but you have to be 'gitano ' to sing that ....
So he has definitely nailed his colours to the flagpost ... i cant say i totally agree with him though ... i m more of the opinion that it is an Andaluz thing and being born and brought up there really helps ...so the further away you get the more it will change things .....
some people learn it almost by accident ....i used to see in the fiestas here and there little girls of 5 and 6 etc .. dancing with their families .. mothers , sisters and grandmothers .. and taking on the dance and facial expressions arm movements and the whole lot .... and small boys playing and singing rumbas and sevillanas ....not all gitanos .. but its a real big start .. even if they reject it for rock and roll later in life .. they still have what it takes to sound flamenco ...and it stays with them ...
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to El Kiko)
Hey Kiko - how's it going?
He's right about Morente not exactly being a master of bulerias but these waters are easy to muddy… Apparently Chocolate - and nobody's going to question his credentials - would terrify guitarists on the VERY rare occasions he would venture into buleria territory… What do I know…? On the whole I agree with Pachon, or, put another way, my favourite singers are all gitanos.
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to changue)
Has anybody noticed that Camaron sang and recorded flamenco before meeting with Pachon, Humanes and the Madrid movement. Then, beginning with Leyenda del Tiempo, all his records became more flamenquito/pop, while his live performances with Tomatito remained flamenco.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: ¿quien canta mejor flamenco los... (in reply to Leñador)
quote:
Didn't notice you had the apology video, sorry Kiko!
I wondered about that ... but , never said anything ... its ok, anyway, just put your own full apology Potito style video for not seeing it and, like with him ... everything will be OK ..
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