Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Sabicas in a movie playing por buleria.....   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009
 

Sabicas in a movie playing por buler... 

Skip to 20:13....... There is another Flamenco guitarist playing but not sure at what point.


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 0:18:30
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to jg7238

wow, he had the guitar fingerboard modified to include a 20th fret, haven't seen that on an old flamenco guitar before.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 1:14:38
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

he had the guitar fingerboard modified to include a 20th fret, haven't seen that on an old flamenco guitar before.


Nice observation there. I didn't notice that....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 3:52:48
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

wow, he had the guitar fingerboard modified to include a 20th fret, haven't seen that on an old flamenco guitar before.


It was fairly common on Mexican guitars in the 1950s and later--probably before that, but that's the earliest I have experience.

My first guitar, from Paracho, had a 20th fret. The fingerboard was rosewood. Eventually the neck bowed a bit. I had Juan Pimentel Ramirez, the great Mexico City luthier, plane the neck flat and replace the fingerboard with ebony. He reproduced the 20th fret, a common feature on his guitars. The neck was rock solid for years afterward.

Pimentel seemed somewhat to resent working on a cheap Paracho guitar. He charged me as much for the fingerboard as I had paid for the guitar in the first place, 300 pesos = $24 at the time.

Pimentel made guitars for a number of Mexican pros, including David Moreno, who played both classical and flamenco, and Gilberto Puente, the requinto of Los Tres Ases, the best requinto player ever.

I believe Pimentel's excellent first class guitars were running about $200 in Brazilian or Indian rosewood and spruce. Over a period of years I commissioned several and brought them back to Texas for friends. By the 1970s they were around $450-500. For comparison, my wife paid $650 for the '67 Ramirez 1a blanca she gave me.

The atmosphere of the movie reminds me strongly of the ambience of the prosperous stratum of Mexico City in the 1950s. But it's the first time I have heard bulerias in an upper class Mexican accent.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 18:35:17
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to jg7238

Pretty girl. Quite a few falsetas from the bulería on Flamenco Puro, I notice.

And 1953 — so that was how he earned a crust when he lived in Mexico.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 19:45:06
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Her singing boyfriend is Pedro Infante, one of the three most famous actors of the Època de Oro of Mexican cinema. Sabicas was in good company, and they were careful to mention his name.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 22:01:42
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to jg7238

quote:

The atmosphere of the movie reminds me strongly of the ambience of the prosperous stratum of Mexico City in the 1950s. But it's the first time I have heard bulerias in an upper class Mexican accent.


This ambience could have been purchased at bargain prices compared to the states as my first visit to Mexico City was to my oldest sisters residence there and was in a very fine home in a primo district and came complete with two young Indio servant girls that took care of EVERY need from shopping and food preparation and serving to laundry and daily change of linens. My sister was secretary in the foreign service and she had teemed up with 3 other girls and pooled their housing allowance which allowed them to live a rarefied lifestyle. Of course we had grown up with the same amenities at La Parra so it didn't seem too unusal.
On my first morning there the girls assembled to greet me and when my sister informed them I played the guitar they produced one for my use. Well, I had just started and all I could play was a prelude by Robert de
de Visee. They mumbles some complements and then informed me they had seen Sabicas the night before and remarked on all his rings.
Talk about a put down!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 22:21:43
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to aeolus

quote:

Well, I had just started and all I could play was a prelude by Robert de de Visee


Disconcerting, certainly; but if they’d just seen Sabicas, I don’t think anything you could have played would have made much difference

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 15 2014 22:52:44
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3433
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to jg7238

I received an email yesterday from someone quite familiar with the flamenco scene in Mexico City in the late 1960s. He doesn't personally participate in Internet forums, so I post the info here, with his permission:

Quote:

"I was thumbing (clicking?) through the Foro Flamenco today and came across the posted clip of Sabicas playing in the Mexican movie, which I had never seen before, great stuff! Several points. In the foro they refer to it as a "bulerias" and indeed Sabicas is playing por bulerias to accompany the singer, but the cante form is a Zorongo, as revived by Garcia Lorca. The ancient form of the Zorongo was originally done to the compas of the tango, but the letras have the same poetic form, so you can make them fit por buleria. If you check out the opening credits, you will see they credit the song as a "Sorongo (sic) Gitano, with authorship to "A. Garcia/Padilla." The guitarist who follows immediately is none other than the great Antonio Bribiesca ("la Guitarra que Llora").

"I fast forwarded the movie to 50.09 where there is a spectacular cafe flamenco scene which starts with a bulerias and ends with a long soleares w/bulerias macho. The dancer is none other than Lola Flores, the wife of Manolo Caracol. The guitarist is the great Paco Aguilera, who played for her for many years,” [the cantaor and movie actor Caracol was the proprietor of the Rincon de Goya in Mexico City for several years] “however, I suspect this scene may have been filmed in Spain, rather than Mexico, and then edited into the long drunken conversation between the two obnoxious señoritos."

"I watched the Sabicas clip closely, I think the guitar with the fingerboard extension he is playing is a Mexican guitar, possibly a Solis, looks a bit like a Santos head which was one of the designs used by Solis, who I knew when I lived there. While the clip at first glance appears to have been recorded live, I believe it was actually recorded in a studio (probably with a different guitar), and with very careful editing inserted over the filmed version. There are several places where the cuts and on screen fingerings don't exactly line up with the music, beyond the usual irritating digital delay which YouTube curses us with.

"Final observation is the movie probably dates to around the early 50's, which is precisely when Sabicas did his one week stint at the Electra studios in NYC. They sold the outtakes (after putting together Vol 1, 2, and 3) to other companies such as Columbia, Hispavox, etc, who released the material over a period of nearly 2 decades, but it all was done ca 1952 at Electra. It wasn't until ABC Paramount released "El Rey del Flamenco" that we actually heard his newer material, and it was a shock to those that thought Sabicas had been standing still all those years just recycling and re-arranging falsetas. "


"Well, it was a shock to see a Mexican movie with so much real flamenco in it. Many of the films Sabicas appeared in (anonymously) were American westerns in which they put a moustache and sombrero on him and had him sitting in the corner playing "Mexican" music in the cantina. Was great to hear Bribiesca thank him by name on screen."

End quote.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 17 2014 16:23:59
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Yes, I noticed it was Zorongo, too. Sabas and Mario use that in the bulería on Fantastic Guitars also.

quote:

Final observation is the movie probably dates to around the early 50's,


1953, as I mentioned earlier: is says “MCMLIII” at the end.

Fascinating post, thanks a lot Richard.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 17 2014 19:17:07
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: Sabicas in a movie playing por b... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Really enjoyed the video clip.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

"Well, it was a shock to see a Mexican movie with so much real flamenco in it. Many of the films Sabicas appeared in (anonymously) were American westerns in which they put a moustache and sombrero on him and had him sitting in the corner playing "Mexican" music in the cantina."



Thanks for the replies RNJ.

I'd like to see a clip of Sabicas with a sombrero and a moustache.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 17 2014 22:24:30
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.