Titebond

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Titebond

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

Titebond

Anyone know if they have improved their formula? I've been using fish glue for years and failed to reorder when I should have. I ran and purchased some Titebond to use for the time being and was surprised/impressed with the tack time. I don't remember it being this quick in the past.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 13:26:37

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

I have used it for the last 10 years and it's always been very quick to get to work. Clamp something for more than 5 minutes, you won't be able to break it!

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 15:02:15

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

I too have used it for many years and have always found it to have high initial tack and what SEden said.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 16:41:59

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

I've started playing around with it and I'm impressed with the initial tack and strength so far.
I'm definitely considering switching over to it as my main glue. In the past I've used LMI instrument makers glue. The thing I like about the LMI glue is that it dries HARD and seems like it would tend to creep less. Titebond seems to dry very strong but still a little on the softer side, so I'm still reluctant to use it for bridges.
The downside of the LMI glue is that they recently reformulated it, and sometimes it will just seize up in the bottle now after only a few weeks of using it.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 17:05:08

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I like the white glues because they dry clear, whereas the yellow glues dry...yellow. So I use Elmer's glue to glue in rosette components, in case there is a gap somewhere.

I have heard people talk about creep regarding yellow glue, but i have found it to dry rock hard and have not noticed this happen once it is dry. And because it dries hard it sands better than white glue without clogging sandpaper. But I have noticed that pressure can cause parts that have just been glued to slide--such as a fingerboard--despite the high tack.

Once as I was gluing small glue blocks in place to connect sides to soundboard, I noticed the sides creeping up at the upper bouts while I was working on the lower bouts, and though it had been 5 or ten minutes since I had applied glue there I was able to get them to go back down by clamping a block across the upper bouts with downward pressure and waiting a few minutes.

On the other hand, once I glued a bridge on with the tie block towards the sound hole and within a minute or so I took it off using a thin spatula--and spruce came off with it. I think spruce glues particularly well with Titebond for some reason. Maybe also with other glues.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 19:47:10

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Titebond (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Andy, most glues last a little longer if you put them in the frig after and in-between using.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 20:22:19

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

I remember Titebond creeping and swimming around a little as I applied clamping pressure. Scarf joints and fan struts for example. Not this time. I love fish glue because it really didn't do this and the tack time was quicker. I tried the LMI white glue recently. Maybe I got an old batch but about a day after glueing on the back, a portion of the lower back brace came unglued!! I had to take the back off and redo that brace. Since then I haven't gone back to LMI glue.

What I like about Titebond is that its fairly inexpensive and if I need more, it's only about a 5 mile drive away. Don't have to order it online. I'll continue to use it until my fish glue arrives. Even then I'm sure I'll still use it for certain components.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 22:46:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

Many years ago at the GFA in New Orleans they had guitars presented there, made with fish glue, and the humidity was so bad that some of them came apart. The same happened with a guitar made in Norfolk Virginia where I was stationed in the Coast Guard in the 60's.

LMI's glue is quite good if you use it full strength but if you try and dilute it a little with water, it will not hold under certain conditions; usually not in heated weather. Note: I do mix it out with a little water to glue on my tap plates.

If the glue is bad it will usually smell a little sour but if it is good then it has a certain sweet smell to it. The way to check it's strength is to put a drop on an anvil and the next day when it is totally dry, hit the drop with a hammer.

If the glue shatters like glass, then it is good. If it turns gummy, similar to Elmer's glue, then it has lost its charge.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 23:31:16

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

Ouch, a back brace coming loose sounds like a near disaster.

I have found with Titebond that the problem of parts "swimming" around can be avoided by holding them together with the hands for a moment before applying clamps. I now do this with fan braces before applying go bars--only for a few seconds, really--and fingerboards before applying clamps, and it works well.

There are other kinds of Titebond now besides the yellow version. I tried the brown version once, which was supposed to have more open time and dry brown instead of yellow. I used it to glue on solid back linings--and the joints partially opened up right after I took the clamps off. That was the last time I used it.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2014 23:34:34

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

I remember Titebond creeping and swimming around a little as I applied clamping pressure.

Sounds more like Fish glue, swimming around.....

Old original Titebond good, Titebond II 'waterproof formula', not good. Titebond II has shown to have lots of creep over time. Titebond III would not trust it either.

There is also a trick to Titebond the glue: manufacture date code. If you get glue that dries in the bottle it may have been on a storage shelf.....A good bet with Titebond is to buy it as fresh as possible, it works much better.

The code on the bottle:

The first number indicates the year the glue was made
The second number indicates the month the glue was made.
Rest of the code tells where it was made, but not important.

You really want to get your Titebond within three months or less for maximum performance. Over one year old don't buy it, six months...hmm maybe ok, but I want it from last month. To get the freshest glue buy it from a store that does high volume sales not a small mail order company, they sit on stock while it gets old. Checking the code in dates on stock in Home Depot or one of the big horrible stores makes it easier to find fresh for glue because they have more turnover. Or the local hardware store can order for you, but ask them who the wholesaler is and if they can bring fresh glue.

The other Titebond formulas were changed from the original to do specific things in the building industry and the original formula is still best for guitars and has less creep over time. I did some in depth research on this a few years ago.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2014 0:49:13

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

The reason your parts creep with the Titebond during gluing is the high film strength
and the parts are essentially floating on glue, which acts as a lubricant until it sets,
or absorbs. This has nothing to do with the properties of the glue when cured. I've
glued lots of stuff with Titebond, it doesn't creep when cured.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2014 19:07:07

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

Yes, creep and "swimming" are two different things. With any glue you have to press with your fingers until it sets enough that you can put clamps on. Or use pins/toothpicks/what have you to align things like headplates and fingerboards.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2014 19:11:15

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Titebond (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I have found with Titebond that the problem of parts "swimming" around can be avoided by holding them together with the hands for a moment before applying clamps. I now do this with fan braces before applying go bars--only for a few seconds, really--and fingerboards before applying clamps, and it works well.

I'm willing to bet I wasn't holding down long enough in the past which I am now and it is working just fine.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2014 12:26:17

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Titebond (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Old original Titebond good, Titebond II 'waterproof formula', not good. Titebond II has shown to have lots of creep over time. Titebond III would not trust it either.

The current batch I have is original. The ones in the past were TII. I think your right here.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2014 12:28:19

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Titebond (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

quote:

Old original Titebond good, Titebond II 'waterproof formula', not good. Titebond II has shown to have lots of creep over time. Titebond III would not trust it either.

The current batch I have is original. The ones in the past were TII. I think your right here.

If you have any doubt just email my best buddy Mario Proulx. LOL

This was hashed out long ago on MIMF- and I've done further tests on scrap with the various Titebond formulas and the II and III formulas will creep under tension. I'm not the only one who came to this conclusion. And as Ethan said never use the brown glue, major FAIL.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2014 12:52:54

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Titebond (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

You really want to get your Titebond within three months or less for maximum performance.

While it is generally acknowledged that WHITE glue spoils after a time, indicated by a sour smell as with milk, I disagree that YELLOW glue needs to be fresh to give full strength.

Often when I get near the end of a bottle of YELLOW glue, I set it aside and take a fresh bottle so I can quickly finish a job. Then I place the old bottle upside down so that I can quickly get the last bit later on. I have let those last bits sit for years and, although they may thicken, they always work reliably and can even be thinned back to original consistency with water.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2014 14:29:24