Weird Occurrences During Practicing

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Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

Weird Occurrences During Practicing

First time must have been some years ago. Occuring rarely, then more often, now almost always.

When focussing thoroughly on meticulous technical detail I find myself starting to yawn. One yawn after the other. Often in conjunction with eyes watering, as if being totally over tired.
Initially it didn´t irk me, but now it will set in right when I find the right depth of focus / enjoying the improvement with execution.

In mind rather delighted about the realization into practice, my body reacts as if it´d prefer me putting the guitar aside and take a nap instead. ... WTF?!

Met a youngster recently who suffers some attention deficite syndrom and sensing that he must have studied a bit on neuronal issues / displacement activity while being a musician in the same time, I asked him whether he had an idea about my weird yawnings.

He said to be familiar with thelike yawning and that it ought to be strain when focussing which again be why the body was suggesting escape into sleep.

Darn ...
Would that mean that I am not good anymore for even just a couple minutes of concentrated focussing? - Able to focus on rather complex matters but not anymore on fine motor skills? Can´t believe it ...

Anyone else here having experienced such strange thing like anti practising yawns?

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 16:21:29

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

“studies show it may be linked to the cooling of the brain” (Wikipedia). Maybe your brain’s overheating?

But also “there is little agreement about its main functions”. You might read the article anyway, to see if it gives you any ideas.

Have you Googled “yawn” and “practice”?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 16:34:04

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

When focussing thoroughly on meticulous technical detail I find myself starting to yawn. One yawn after the other. Often in conjunction with eyes watering, as if being totally over tired.
Initially it didn´t irk me, but now it will set in right when I find the right depth of focus / enjoying the improvement with execution.

Perhaps you could use drinking more water, indulging sleeping-in a bit more ... and practicing some fresh new material, to get you excited?

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 17:10:27

guido

Posts: 52
Joined: Feb. 27 2006

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

Hi Ruphus. The same you described happens to me sometimes. Once concentrating on playing it starts. Not always and not regularly. It happens to me also when I read sth. to s.o., e.g. a book. If it at least was a reaction to a party the night before...

After a while it disappears, I think your body and mind isn't in the mood for such things then. But no reason to dramatize i.m.o.

Slainté
Guido

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 19:11:08

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

I just had a couple of days where I took at least 3 hour naps. That is unusual but I have always taken an hour's siesta when I could, since I was a kid. I was two weeks late as a baby and slept 8 hours a night without any need of a feed.

Sometimes you just need lots of sleep. One of our few, truly free wonderful experiences (if you don't count what you could be doing otherwise).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 19:18:09

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

Can't remember if i structurally yawned during my 40 hour workouts but i can tell from experience proper focus is extremely demanding/exhausting..... after 1 hour of full focus i generally had to sleep 7-23 hours to recover.

Among the "weird" occurrences i experienced during my 40 hour hyper focused practice sessions were (in order of appearance/likability):

* becoming complete berserk after a couple of minutes of forced concentration (making the angry guitar man look like a pussy)
* experiencing a hypnotic/meditative state of mind (most exercises function like a mantra).
* over time experiencing a higher state of awareness (i was able to mentally slow down a trembling string to swing level amongst other things).
* my hands being highjacked by my subconsciousness (taking over control of my mind).

Standard reactions were extreme sweating and total mental exhaustion.

I have to add i probably suffer some kind of ADD myself and i find it very hard to focus when things don't really have my interest. The few times i forced myself to study the guitar on a more serious base my biggest problem was gaining focus. To me a couple of minutes of full focus would result in a state of mind that would make "the angry guitar player" look like a pussy. Fortunately i didn't smash my guitar like he did but i would put it out of sight for 24 hour and would try it again the next day. Weeks might pass before i was able to concentrate for even 5 minutes, over time 5 minutes became 10, 10 became 30 and once i was able to concentrate for 1 hour i was mentally ready to face my 40 hour workout. That moment would also match the moment my mind was tuned on mastering the guitar and "full focus study" had become a total obsession. The funny thing is that once i become fascinated by something my natural lack of concentration (ADD?) can turn into hyper focus at it best, a state of mind known as the flow were you actually become one with your subject.

I cant remember i yawed a lot (possibly) but i do know i put in so much mental energy i generaly had to sleep the remaining hours of the day to recover. The first week i would study 1 hour a day (sleeping the other 23 hours to recover), the second week i would study 2 hours a day (with 10 hours of sleep/rest in between) and the 3th week i would study 3 hours a day (with 7 hours of sleep/rest in between). At the end of week 3 i generally reached a level of awareness/control i can only dream of right now. Unfortunately another characteristic of ADD is that you loose interest as soon as things run smoothly and once there was nothing to improve anymore i tended to abandon my guitar for a while and as a result lost my abilities as fast as i had gained them. After 4 runs like that (once every year) i decided not to try anymore.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 20:43:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

Catching extra O2 (Oxygen) is what I heard. Used to happen to me too when I was a teen lip synching to a quiet song (instead of literally singing along)....yawn for no reason when I was not tired. I suspect the reason is I would be holding my breath without realizing it. Could be in your case holding your breath while practicing guitar (I have noticed with students too)....so after a while your body is inspired to catch extra oxygen.

Just a theory.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 20:56:05

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Catching extra O2 (Oxygen) is what I heard.

Perhaps. It may also indicate that the brain is disengaged, stressed out about other things, but there is no scientific concensus on the causes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 8:32:06

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

Ironically, last night there was almost no yawning while practising.

Thank you guys, your input is very interesting to me. There is so much I can relate too.
( I also followed your suggestion and made a quick google; to no avail though, which might be due to my questioning method.)

First of all, good to read that thelike is being familiar to others too / hence, that I am not necessarily deteroriating in brain work.

Wikipedia says the oldest physical explanation for yawning ( that I am aware of), lack of oxygene, to have been refuted by someone named Provine.

The suggestion of drinking water could be valuable. I have the habit of drinking not much more than a liter per day. And while the default recommendation of 2 liters a day has been redrawn lately, with the note that everyone´s got his individual demand and that there can also be a too much ... I guess my personal consumption must indeed be a bit too little.

How did you come to the idea, Michel?

Excitement: There is not lack of it. In fact with the efficiency of knowledge I rather get positive when focussing and experiencing the technical advance that comes of it. ( Which again is why the yawning annoys, for who after all likes to yawn when excited.)

Guido, you could be right. I am not exactly in a recreational mood generally / plagued with unpleasent circumstances, with my unconsciousness possibly revolting against dedication to the fine arts.
And you are right one should not dramatize. I wasn´t really panicking, but will appreciate if the yawning demon goes away again.

Hi Simon,

Late science recommends midday naps, and I am telling everyone to do so when they can. Myself, even though loving the sweet sleep during siesta, do enjoy it rather seldomly however. For one because of the dogs, secondly aquaintances often coming by around those hours, and also often feeling as if there was too little time ( I would just love to see a solar cycle of say 32 hour days instead of 24).

I was scheduled for late birth as well. However, docs of that time thought nature ought to be put on time tables. Eventhough obvious that me was not ready yet, they forced the birth, with my old lady and me going through hell through a 38 hour procedure in the delivery room. Wierdly I remember to have almost suffocated and the feeling of having one´s head torn while being pulled out ( strangely also other memories before the age of the 3 years, eventhough one is not supposed to be having any), also my mother was internally injured.

Anyway, since then I feel like hardly ever sleeping enough / never recreating anyway. ( Sleeping being often very sweet, yet me hardly ever getting up refreshed. Could be due to polyps in the nose that hinder air flow.) But If I would allow myself I could easily sleep more than 9 hours per night; ... and great were those Sundays when me and girl-friends would occupy the bed for all kinds of relaxing procedures. ( A quicky in the morning, then going out for brunch with friends and afterwards returning to bed. How is that? >sigh< :O) However, since many years now it feels to me as if life-time was running away, with me very scarcely allowing myslef to sleep until nuff.
Further, the dog molesters will usually have me jump out of bed several times each morning. First time often after only 4 or 5 hours of sleep.

Erik,

"Trance" is quite how the focussing comes out for me. Literally being carried away.
Only that the stamina for long sessions has gone lost somehow. In the nineties I was able to "trance away" for up to 24 hours ( which wasn´t really good, considering that my imagination on how to execute wasn´t correct. And also how we know meanwhile that ~ 2 hours per day will do if only well spent), while now the time span of concentrated execution appears to become ever shorter.

Ricardo,

Strange suppression of breath definitly takes place when something is very demanding ( replacing wrong technique with ergonomical yet not established one). From time to time I find myself holding breath. It is as if having forgotten to breathe.

However, this seems not to be taking place all the time, and many times when the yawning comes up I might have been breathing more or less natural.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 10:39:11

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

The suggestion of drinking water could be valuable. (...) I guess my personal consumption must indeed be a bit too little.

How did you come to the idea, Michel?

I wake up at 4:00AM every God given day in order to follow the European business day and (save for the occasional business trip or meeting) work twelve hours straight between telephone and computer (save for the occasional post here), sitting on my chair and smoking cigarettes, and (yes) I typically forget to drink water.

I learned, after fighting an inexplicable fatigue I suffered, that dehydration contributes heavily to that lethargy we may experience during the day.

I now keep a carafe of water within reach, do not indulge any heavy lunch, and as a break I yield to that midday's desire for a sweet short nap [as I stretch on a couch, I set my alarm for 20 minutes, which gives me a 15 minutes nap].

With these, rather simple, life style adjustments, I have reduced significantly those pounds of lassitude weighing on my eyelids and with it, any.... "premature yawning".

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 14:47:52

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

Thank you, Michel,

I shall keep that in mind and try change habits / drink more.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 15:48:22

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

quote:

The suggestion of drinking water could be valuable. (...) I guess my personal consumption must indeed be a bit too little.

How did you come to the idea, Michel?

I wake up at 4:00AM every God given day in order to follow the European business day and (save for the occasional business trip or meeting) work twelve hours straight between telephone and computer (save for the occasional post here), sitting on my chair and smoking cigarettes, and (yes) I typically forget to drink water.

I learned, after fighting an inexplicable fatigue I suffered, that dehydration contributes heavily to that lethargy we may experience during the day.

I now keep a carafe of water within reach, do not indulge any heavy lunch, and as a break I yield to that midday's desire for a sweet short nap [as I stretch on a couch, I set my alarm for 20 minutes, which gives me a 15 minutes nap].

With these, rather simple, life style adjustments, I have reduced significantly those pounds of lassitude weighing on my eyelids and with it, any.... "premature yawning".

good advices here.
Thats basically what I did (except the nap, I just can't sleep during daytime but I'm sure that short nap also helps a lot to regenerate) and It helped me a lot too. Most important is to drink water for sure. I kind of "forget" that I'm thirsty, so having a bottle of water in front of you and drink a glas from while to while as a regular habit helped a lot. And yes, eating too much at midday is another bad habbit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 16:17:36

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

And yes, eating too much at midday is another bad habbit.

Many years ago I used to have problems when returning from lunch break to all-day martial arts training. Clearly parasympathicus fighting against the efforts of physical engagement.
Food combining did the trick.

I switched from common dishes like pasta etc. to things like fried fish with salad, and it really did away with post lunch tiredness.

Just mentioning in case of anyone being interested into how to overcome afternoons low tide.

Ruphus

PS:
Agreed. Folks not used to drinking enough water, like us, need to keep carafe in sight. Otherwise will keep forgetting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 18:01:52

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

And yes, eating too much at midday is another bad habbit.

Actually when i decided to take studying a little more seriously (read extremely seriously) i started to make annotations of everything that possibly could influence study results. Obviously i kept scores of what/how/when i studied and the matching results, but i also kept meticulous scores of my eating habits (what/when), sleeping habits (when/how) and my mental and physical energy levels during the day.

One of the outcomes was that when feeding my brain with new and challenging exercises my brain needed an additional 7 hours to process that info after abandoning the exercise and that it was very important not to disturb that process of mental administration. The funny thing is you can do everything you like...
eat, sleep, watch television, play a game of chess or even play the guitar. The only thing you are not allowed to do is to study that challenging material again before the first set is mentally processed because that somehow seems to destroy all the data of the first set and as such is extremely contra productive.
Quite recently a dutch university did a similar study and came to similar conclusions (they claimed a 6 hour processing period which basically second my data of 25 years ago).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 21:10:07

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

I have this problem, really really really bad. I blame it on all the years i've been addicted to video games, now it feels like i need some sort of addictive drive while learning new material....which does come here and there...sparked by inspiration or ...other things. Sometimes i'll learn stuff while doing those addictive things at the same time. learn stuff while playing a video game, or while an instructional video is playing in the background! Eventually i reach a breaking point where i'm like.."THIS IS F#(ING STUPID!, I'm going to sit down and do it right!" Then i learn very rapidly until i fall asleep and the cycle repeats.

So idk if the addictive drive thing will help or not....it's what i'm used to but...obviously it's not the best way to learn things. But it might coerce that breaking point out of you and give you a few hours of quality learning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 9:13:48

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

Sounds interesting. As if spiltting focus could be becoming routine for the brain.
As you say already, no good thing to do. Science found decades ago already that multi tasking is being inefficient, and that our brain actually can only do one thing at a time. ( Some folks like my passed away brother can conduct as if they were unrolling several things in the same time, but it remains merely fast switching between tasks.)

Accidentally, there is some multi taksing routine going on here indeed. That is when I play sitting. Then I will watch TV simultaneously. Actually it is rather like exercising while looking at the screen unattentively.
But even just that empty watching TV could be enough to develop bad habits, indeed.

Besides, curiously since the day that I opened this thread I have had no yawnings anymore. What I get instead is real sleepiness after only a short time ( like maybe 1-2 hours). Now that sessions are more interrupted than before ( after latest poison attack against my dogs, plus podo dermatitis, which need their large-scale treatment with 5 meds twice per day ) even worse.
My stamina has taken quite a step back.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 11:49:40

wiking

Posts: 63
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: Weird Occurrences During Practicing (in reply to Ruphus)

While the real reason we yawn is largely unknown by science, I've read that there is some evidence to suggest that if your body is not getting enough oxygen due to shallow breathing, you may start to yawn to take deeper breaths. I find if I'm meticulously practicing something I start to yawn, because I sometimes "forget" to breathe. I'll hold my breath while doing stuff and catch myself doing it sometimes, which I know is bad technique. So that could be why. Focus on your breathing more and maybe it'll go away.

(I just saw this offered as an explanation earlier but I'll leave this here anyway!)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 17:16:39