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Taranta
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: Taranta (in reply to akatune)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: akatune
Theoretically I can start at E at the 12 th fret and work my way down each chord and corresponding scale, in a flamenco way, to F# at the 2nd fret. That would be taranta.
But, based on the years of debates on the foro, there are those nay sayers who will say that's not flamenco. Purists so often deny flamenconess based on the slightest variation. So where's the line. We can't just say, "because."
It's a philosophical question and a question that may require deep knowledge of theory.
This topic comes up a lot. It's not philosophical at all IMO. It's difficult to explain without being condecending as I once stated "if you have to ask, then it is NOT in the proper form...". I know that sounds bad, but what I mean by that is you need to have studied the form so well that the question "what makes it a taranta" is a non issue, long before you "compose" your first falseta. Many beginners confuse a SONG FORM with being as simple as being "in a key" or "in a certain rhythm". It's not that simple.
Other musics have song forms...in Bach's day you had "fugue", and beethoven was into "sonata allegro". American musicians developed "Blues". So before you set out to say "well, I want to compose a fugue...here I go..." you need to have studied tons of fugues. And understand their structure. Same for Blues or any song form. There will be different approaches. It is not only about copying or interpreting existing music, but understanding the parameters. It is not about "rules" like when you go driving around town that you have to follow. No cop will stop you from just doing whatever you want and calling it "the blues". But the people that are seriously involved with a song form will know very well what the composer knows about it.
So as far as Taranta goes, Morante is correct the cante form is important. But as a player/composer what that means is the ACCOMPANIMENT in general of the cante. Not only the chord structure for the singer. ANy folk or jazz etc player can play the "chords" for the cante (Simple D7,A7, G7, F#) but that is not nearly enough to make a good FLAMENCO sounding accompaniment. All the things that happen inbetween the singing is important too. And the way the chords are set up to answer the singer with short melodic devices.
Even though some super cante nerds believe any guitar playing that could constitute a "solo" is tosh, it turns out it is super important for extablishing right mood and atmosphere for the singer to feel comfortable anyway. And those interludes are not random, they also have timing even though they are free. THere has to be flow which translates to compas just like for other forms that are more strict meter. Again, the recent example of classical players interpreting a flamenco solo taranta points to the same issue, the timing learned from studying accompaniment is important for the bigger picture of the form. And I could go further that accompaniment is more than just cante when you take baile into account. But a good command of how guitarist play for singers is more than enough to get into composing your own stuff.
Now you dont' have to go out and memorize some giant anthology of "cantes de la mina" or something first. Although that is good too....something as simple as go on youtube and look up people singing taranta/taranto/cartegenera etc etc, pick some good version you like and learn what the guitarist does. THen compare to a different player you might like, or same player different performance etc. extract new details each time, very small ones. Over time the model you create as a blue print for the form will get more clear and you will find yourself creating your own things that you trust "work" and sound unique at the same time.
Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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Date Oct. 28 2013 14:41:33
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Taranta (in reply to machopicasso)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: machopicasso
quote:
Have you seen this thread with kitarist's flamenco circle of fifths showing non-palo key centres (G, C, F, Bb/A#, D#)? Thread has discussion and some examples of the atypical/modern explorations of some non-palo centres e.g. a rare use of G flamenco by Canizares por bulerias.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=332688&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=circle
Tomatito used altered tuning to play tarantas, I think making it in G#minera key? I don't know what else has been attempted altered key/tuning por tarantas.
Thanks for the reference to that thread. I've long known of the Tomatito piece and was wondering if anyone had branched out and done a taranta in G phrygian.
Why specifically G phrygian? The truth is, the cante form or copla, moves to relative major (Eb major in this case). Rendering the song form quite uncomfortable (all barre chords) until the final G resolution. Other keys have similar problems on standard tuned guitars (F, Bb, C Phrygian tonalities). Guitars are designed to accommodate singing in standard keys, not so much for playing ALL keys possible like keyboard instruments. It is quite simply why they invented the capo.
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 4 2023 14:34:18
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Taranta (in reply to machopicasso)
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quote:
I was interested in the key change for solo guitar taranta, as opposed to cante accompaniment, if that makes a difference.
Couple of things. Decoupling the cante form from the guitar to make a solo instrumental is in questionable taste, and the huge reason people like Morante send constant reminders about the importance of the cante, as it is the basis of the FORMAL STRUCTURE of the palos…all of them, with possible exception the Rondeña (although we can say it is an alternative to Taranto/Minera etc, ie, a cante minero form).
The other thing is the dissonant chord that is uses as tonic in Taranta (F# yes, but with dissonant open strings heard against) is not coming from pure old traditions. The true tonic chord F# was always played as a stable triad. Perhaps N> Ricardo or someone let a final chord ring with dissonance, but even PDL did not start doing that right away. Then even things like Solea started allowing that dissonant chord to ring as a final resolved chord, first one I know of that was not a stable triad was Vicente amigo 1991!!!. So searching for dissonant chords such a as weird G chord or whatever, is missing the point of the song forms, hate to say.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 5 2023 15:45:05
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