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I never believed for two seconds any of the smear stuff that was said of him on the old Temple list.
Can you explain that, tell us more? I've no idea what you are talking about?
I would love to have met him too. I have a friend , Les Mates, here in UK, who has a Sobrinos de Estoso that Diego played (and nearly trashed). I've repaired this guitar recently, so I feel I have some tenuous connection with Diego.
16 years of some crazy abuse and wild adventures including having heavy stuff dropped on it, crazy drunk people bang on it, dropped off chair, forced through baggage claim, tons of crazy weather events and not a scratch on the top...till tonight.
Sorry to hear of that, Ricardo. :O[ -
Years ago in a discussion at AG about humidity issues, I was about to conclude that once a certain period of time has passed a guitar should have acclimated and be out of the woods. A member nicked "Sasquatch" ( mis the ol´grumbling `redneck´. Hope he´s doing alright) from around Arizona´s desert climate then urged caution, mentioning how two of his finer guitars cracked in the top, still after more than 10 years of stay in his house ( under constant / humidified conditions ).
I am of the impression that antique guitars show more durable ( as I assume due to all the endured fluctuations / thus grown flexibility or lessening sensitivity ) than fresh ones, but apparently you can´t really feel safe when the discrepancy between assembly and current humidity exceeds some -20% or so.
Reassuring how builders estimate dryness much slower effecting than I am afraid of ( I get nervous already when the guitar is exposed to lower RH [ ~-10%] for more than ~ 3 or 4 hours ), but axes will probably not mind after all to slip back into their watched out for case as soon as session is over.
Just mentioning; sorry for OT!
Ruphus
PS: Any here rember the times when humidity was not even known of as a factor?
the top cracked on my (I thought due to voodoo, indestructable) A26 tonight for no damn apparent reason!
Man, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that.
But surely there's a reason why. No clue whatsoever?
I use the guitar A LOT.... and like I said after years of abuse I thought the guitar just had some magic luck. So when the hardshell case fell apart 5 years ago (from so much abuse as well) I got away with using a soft gig bag. Nice and light and I can squash it into the trunk of the car on a pile of sound equipment etc. Well, looks like luck ran out. I transported this guitar a lot more than usual this past weekend...plus the guitar is exposed (in the bag) to occasional kid play and vacuum cleaner etc. I blame myself of course for taking it for granted that it is just a piece of wood. I know it was not humidity, nothing strange going on these last weeks. The top was banged or stressed somehow and I never noticed until last night after playing. Can't even notice it while playing actually only can be seen from looking up from below.
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
Is this a real quote? Can you tell me where you got it?
Yes - the quote is real. It's possible Harry got it from me - it has been part of my signature for some time. The translation is by R. Brune. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think it came from one of his "Guitars with Guts" articles in Vintage Guitar.
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"The duende is God's orgasm." - Antonio Canales
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." - Santos Hernandez (as translated by R. Brune)
Just so you know your negative conde energy (past couple days anyway) worked and the top cracked on my (I thought due to voodoo, indestructable) A26 tonight for no damn apparent reason!
Sorry to hear that, amigo. But a couple of cleats and a liitle glue and all will be well. I f you were here, I would do it for free, with pleasure, but you have better connections.
Just so you know your negative conde energy (past couple days anyway) worked and the top cracked on my (I thought due to voodoo, indestructable) A26 tonight for no damn apparent reason!
Sorry to hear that, amigo. But a couple of cleats and a liitle glue and all will be well. I f you were here, I would do it for free, with pleasure, but you have better connections.
Suerte
Morante
by shear luck a luthier just moved into my neighborhood a few weeks ago. He said he could help me out right away. From Panama Luis Fernandez de Cordoba. I think somebody has a guitar of his on here. I remember because at first thought he WAS from cordoba but it's just his cool name (lucky guy).
From Panama Luis Fernandez de Cordoba. I think somebody has a guitar of his on here. I remember because at first thought he WAS from cordoba but it's just his cool name (lucky guy).
Yeah, cool alright, can you imagine having to right that long thing all the time signing cheques etc, or spelling it out for people. Better right small!
I think it is definitely from that interview and I remember reading it somewhere and I guess I just cut and pasted that part because I think that quote was used as a header at the top of the webpage.
Anyhoo.
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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
by shear luck a luthier just moved into my neighborhood a few weeks ago. He said he could help me out right away. From Panama Luis Fernandez de Cordoba. I think somebody has a guitar of his on here. I remember because at first thought he WAS from cordoba but it's just his cool name (lucky guy).
I thought he was in Alaska last time I checked. Cool. Heck of a different culture to move from Alaska (an occasional moose crossing the road) to D.C. (traffic armageddon).
At all but the Conde shop, the clientele tended to be well dressed, well spoken and musically literate.
...but didn't know how to play the guitar to save their freakin lives. Meanwhile, over at the Conde's.....
I ran into Narciso Yepes at Ramirez once, Oscar Ghiglia and Michael Lorimer as well, crossed paths with Carlevaro at Contreras one day. They could play pretty well....but I didn't hear flamenco anywhere except at Conde Hermanos. A lot of it was pretty rough.
Some of it was great, though. Melchor was at Conde Hermanos one day when I went in. The guys came out from the back room and the kids came in off the street to hear him try out guitars.
There weren't many kids on the street at Concepcion Jeronima or the Calle Mayor, and if there had been I doubt they would have known who Yepes and Carlevaro were.
I ran into Narciso Yepes at Ramirez once, Oscar Ghiglia and Michael Lorimer as well, crossed paths with Carlevaro at Contreras one day. They could play pretty well....but I didn't hear flamenco anywhere except at Conde Hermanos. A lot of it was pretty rough.
Some of it was great, though. Melchor was at Conde Hermanos one day when I went in. The guys came out from the back room and the kids came in off the street to hear him try out guitars.
There weren't many kids on the street at Concepcion Jeronima or the Calle Mayor, and if there had been I doubt they would have known who Yepes and Carlevaro were.
I would love to have met him too. I have a friend , Les Mates, here in UK, who has a Sobrinos de Estoso that Diego played (and nearly trashed). I've repaired this guitar recently, so I feel I have some tenuous connection with Diego.
He apparently played everyone's guitar...haha
On the first popular internet discussion group on flamenco in the 1990's one of the continuous topics was something on the order of: "Why do so many old Hippies in California know Moron Toque?"
It's because lots of Americans went to Diego in Moron to learn guitar, then came back and shared the experience. The frackus was all about how important Diego was in the bigger picture of flamenco. On one side you had people saying he was not important in Spain in any way and was basically a back water unknown guitarist who taught few guiri to play guitar. On the other side there were those who maintained he was a saint and to learn guitar you had to go to Moron and nothing else worked. There were lots of axes being ground and lots of hack opinions. Mostly it was non Spanish aficionados working out deep personal vendettas they had against each other that had started in the Moron days of the 60's and 70's - It was all about who was where at what time. It often came down to really insanely petty stuff like jealousy that one person had been invited to a fiesta that happened in 1967 and rubbing it in the face of someone who was not invited. Then the non invitee would proclaim they had some thing better to do then hang out with that stupid unflamenco American clique. It was one of those things where all the foreigners were trying to posture to each other and prove they were more aware of Spanish culture than anyone. It was a protracted show of one upsmanship that was centered on how your side understood Diego's place in flamenco. It was not always pretty, showed some very nasty sides of human nature, but it was very interesting as adebate when it was not getting too personal.
That topic came to almost dominate the entire time that list was running on the a server at Temple U. Internet discussion careers were launched, and some of the best writing about flamenco happened. it was also really really funny, and the flame wars have become legendary. Some of those discussions were so intense that instead of people on the internet relating to each other what happened at a flamenco show, it was the other way around. People at flamenco bars would discuss what happened on the internet that day.
Without getting out my old passports or security clearance forms, I'll estimate the time spent in Madrid this way. From 1968 to 1991 I averaged 4 or 5 trips to Madrid per year. I stayed at the Hotel Emperador on the Gran Via most of the time. It is within walking distance of all the shops mentioned except Camacho's. I only visited him a couple of times. I usually stayed in Madrid about 4 days, taking in a couple of shows and visiting the guitar shops. That totals up to a little over a year and two months spent in Madrid.
Of course this doesn't compare to the in-depth knowledge of our resident skeptic and expert, but-- wouldn't it be odd if you didn't run into the occasional pro over that period of time visiting guitar shops in Madrid?
A hotel like the Emperador was not only beyond my limited budget but not at all the type of place I preferred to stay in when abroad. I much preferred the local color of the small, family-run establishments that were clean, safe, convenient and reasonably priced. A decent place to leave my bags and sleep were my only requirements. Think Rick Steves or "Let's Go" as opposed to Michelin guide books. In Madrid I usually stayed at a third floor walkup hostale on the C. Nunez de Arce just off the Plaza Santa Ana (good area for tapas grazing) that was run by an older couple and their son and daughter. They had a second establishment on the same street. It was not only convenient to many of the guitar shops but Casa Patas was also only two blocks away.
Richard has obviously spent much more time in Madrid than I have. The only "famous" person I ever encountered at any of the shops, other than the makers themselves, was the American luthier turned parts and accessories manufacturer/supplier Michael Gurian. He was in the Ramirez shop one evening when I was there in 1996, not long after they had moved to their present location on the C. de la Paz. The place was still being set up and finished and was in a bit of disarray. Jose IV and Amalia were both there that evening as well. Another evening in the Contreras shop there was a young Japanese player trying out guitars in the back. He had a small entourage, mostly female, fawning over him. He seemed to have some good chops but I neither cared for nor understood the dissonant contemporary stuff he was playing. I asked Pablo Contreras who he was. He told me the guy's name and when I said that I had never heard of him before Pablo just smiled, shrugged his shoulders, and said that he had never heard of him either until his agent called to set up a time for him to try some guitars.
well I don't know who Narcissist Cagavelli is, but I am sure he can't play anything even close to in compas if he doesn't use Conde. Meanwhile, the rest of you CLEARLY have never even been to madrid.
American internet moron drama does sound very very very very very very very very very interesting though. Please lets hear more about it.
A hotel like the Emperador was not only beyond my limited budget but not at all the type of place I preferred to stay in when abroad. I much preferred the local color of the small, family-run establishments that were clean, safe, convenient and reasonably priced. A decent place to leave my bags and sleep were my on
The above-cited quote represents a form of inverse snobbery: the smug, facile conceit that only by staying in "small, family-run establishments," pensions, hostels, and the like, can one really get to "know the local people." The implication is that those who stay in hotels such as the Emperador are unable to connect with or get to know the local people. I have met many acquaintances who stayed in upscale hotels and took the time to explore the local environs, and they knew more about the local people and their customs than many who stayed in pensions and the like. On the other hand, I have met many who stayed in pensions and didn't take the time to pick up any of the language or broaden their vision of a country beyond the level of the people they met in that millieu.
Regarding this thinly veiled swipe at Richard, I am certain that he can defend himself, but I would just like to say that I know Richard, have had dinner with him in Texas, and have conversed with him on all manner of subjects, both in person and on the Foro. I can unequivocally state that whatever hotel he may have stayed in while visiting Madrid, it would be a mistake to assume he knows less about local color and the local people than someone who stayed in "small, family-run establishments."
Cheers,
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
A hotel like the Emperador was not only beyond my limited budget but not at all the type of place I preferred to stay in when abroad. I much preferred the local color of the small, family-run establishments that were clean, safe, convenient and reasonably priced. A decent place to leave my bags and sleep were my on
The above-cited quote represents a form of inverse snobbery: the smug, facile conceit that only by staying in "small, family-run establishments," pensions, hostels, and the like, can one really get to "know the local people." The implication is that those who stay in hotels such as the Emperador are unable to connect with or get to know the local people.
Inverse snobbery? Implications? Not at all. Poking a little sarcastic fun at what came across to me as a rather elitist sounding post? Absolutely. It would have been just as easy for him to say that he stayed in a conveniently located hotel and left it at that. I can see no reason to have even mentioned the Emperador other than a "thinly veiled" attempt to impress the unwashed masses.
Emperador other than a "thinly veiled" attempt to impress the unwashed masses.
Uh, not really. It was an attempt at giving the precise geography relative to the surroundings, as THAT land mark might mean something to folks that ACTUALLY WENT TO MADRID.
Where as i on the other hand visited the conde shop down the street from mcdonalds near the train station
It is Richards style to mention surrounding details. Further, if he intended to brag he could expose high life arsenal way more than such. Also he would had certainly stored a full grown Miguel Rodriguez or Barbero by now just to impress pedestrians.
Reading from him over meanwhile a bunch of years I doubt him to be a snob. He has too much depth after all.
Just my opinion for old thread: I think that especially(or at least) older condes sound very good and that experienced builders used to build them are what made them so popular. That was the reason why it was back in the day choice of great players such as Nino Ricardo and Paco de Lucia. These days the quality has gone up and quality down but this is what happens with almost every big brand after they start requiring mass production. I think many guitarists choose conde because of the brand, but I am sure more choose it because they like the guitar. I am probably not mistaken if I think that many guitarists would be willing to pay good money for old conde but wouldnt even try a modern one(unless its from mariano or felipe conde, but they cost around 10,000eur). Conde hermanos is making big money and they have deserved it. Those who dislike their quality going lower should ask themselves if they would like to make a whole lot of money by mass producing guitars instead of having experienced luthiers make them. It seems like felipe v, atocha and gravina have all gone mass production but mariano and felipe make very expensive guitars in their own shops with (mostly)their own hands and keeping the tradition of Domingo esteso somewhat alive.
I have been holding onto a secret for many years as folks have invented stories about who makes Condes and where. The time has come to reveal all. Just put "Pozuelo de Alarcón, Spain, Calle Guitarras" into Google Earth and all will be revealed.
The original Conde brothers actually did have a workshop at C. Santiago Maganto, 4 in Pozuelo de Alarcon (a suburb of Madrid) to crank out cheap guitars for the Gravina and Atocha shops. Generally speaking these instruments were unsigned and undated but some of the "better" guitars may have come from there as well. The shop opened in 1957 and, if I recall correctly, closed sometime in the early 1970s.
ORIGINAL: C. Vega A hotel like the Emperador was not only beyond my limited budget but not at all the type of place I preferred to stay in when abroad.
When I first stayed at the Emperador in 1968 it was around $30-$40 per night. Just about everything in Spain was cheap in U.S. dollars in those days. I was paying well under $1,000 for Ramirez 1a classicals, and selling them in Texas at a profit.
The marble foyer of the Emperador made a good impression, as did the leather and mahogany lobby. The marble tiled lobby floor had rugs instead of the anonymous fuzz that the same price would have got you at the Holiday Inn. The bar was nicely decorated in a somewhat dated Spanish style, and had a big 2nd story window that looked down on the sidewalks along the Gran Via that remained crowded until 2 AM. The mahogany paneled dining room had white table cloths, and an excellent selection of bread, pastry, ham, cheese, fruit, fresh orange juice and coffee for breakfast. There were several reliable restaurants close by.
The rooms were a bit worn, but decent and spotlessly clean. The dark hardwood floors had seen a bit of traffic, and the rugs were threadbare in spots. The furniture was substantial but dated. The bathroom was tiled in a dismal brown shade. The porcelain fixtures were dark maroon. The electric light seemed barely to penetrate the gloom, but again everything was spotless, substantial and worked perfectly.
The air conditioning and heating were reliable and quiet. All in all, a good place to stay, and a real bargain for an American in the late 1960s.
As time went on and Spain joined the general European economy, prices went up at the Emperador, but the accommodations remained the same familiar and reliable ones. I kept on staying there. Besides proximity to the guitar shops, the Union Musical Española with its extensive sheet music selection was within convenient walking distance. So was the department store El Corte Inglés with its big record department. I bought my copy of Sabicas' "Flamenco Puro" there and made the acquaintance of a number of cantaores.
But at last the Emperador got too expensive for what it provided for me. When I bought my spruce/Brazilian doble tapa from Manuel Contreras, Sr. in 1991, he complained that the 14% value added tax would soon be implemented. He said he would raise his prices.
"But Maestro, the IVA won't apply to the guitar!"
"It will apply to everything I buy."
By then the Emperador was above $100 per night. I stayed at a pension a couple of blocks further along the Gran Via. It was owned by an Argentine, who had made his living as a classically trained pianist before he moved to Spain. The food and company were good, the room small, and without air conditioning in July it was hot. But I was happy with my new guitar.
I wasn't at all well off in 1991, but from then on I prospered considerably. I have been flat broke more than once. I have stayed in some execrable dumps in my travels: not safe and respectable places like Charles Vega describes, but dirty places in dangerous neighborhoods.
Larisa had a pretty rough time of it after moving with her mother from the Soviet Union to the USA at age 13. She was unhappy at Kwajalein, but to cheer herself up a bit, sometimes she would list its advantages. One was "No drive-by shootings."
To balance things out a bit, I tend to compensate. When we stayed in Madrid in 2007 the Ritz was full, so we stayed at the Palace across the street. Breakfast was impressively sumptuous. The balcony gave a nice view of the fountain, and the concierge got us tickets for the Prado, also across the street, without having to stand in line, and good prima barrera seats for the corridas of the Fiesta de San Isidro.
Neither of us felt guilty. We felt we had paid our dues.
Where you stay need not dictate who you meet. We were staying at a hotel across the street from Ipanema beach during Carnaval in Rio de Janeiro. Prices go up then. The mother of this little girl had a souvenir stand at the station where you board the train to go up to the big statue of Christ on Corcovado. We fell into conversation. Fascinated by Larisa's blondeness, the girl asked for a photo.
After we came back down from the statue, we stopped in a little cafe in the neighborhood for lunch. It opened onto the sidewalk, and was a bit crowded. We got talking to this guy at the next table.