Composing Flamenco

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Composing Flamenco

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CarloJuan

Posts: 169
Joined: Sep. 19 2010
From: Philippines

Composing Flamenco

Hi, it has been a long time since I posted here in the forum. But it's good to be back. I'm back to music for good and decided I'd pursue my life's dream of just playing and performing guitar.

Anyway, so much for my drama.

Guys, how do you begin to learn how to compose flamenco? It's something I have been a little confused with. Though thinking about it excites me, it manages to make my head hurt because how do you compose awesome sounding falsettas that would manage to fit a 12 beat compas?

I could imagine it would take loads of creativity to try composing one. It baffles me how Gerardo Nunez came up with that awesome falsetta in "Hacia mi" or how Vicente magically fits a jazzy line in an Alegria. Apparently, these nuevo flamenco geniuses have managed to escape from being trapped with predictable sounding falsettas and they use all sorts of odd timing, accents and syncopations.

Any suggestions? tips or help on beginning composing flamenco?

Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 16:41:42

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

I think your problem is, that you expect to invent things out
of thin air.

When in actuality, you simply Steal. :)

Take a Gerardo falseta. Mix it up. Keep most of the notes, and change
the timing.
Take a rhythmic motiff from Tomatito, and some arpeggios from
a Vicente falseta, and make something new.

Of course, this kind of thing comes alot easier after years
of experience with flamenco harmony, and thousands of falsetas transcribed.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 18:14:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarloJuan

Hi, it has been a long time since I posted here in the forum. But it's good to be back. I'm back to music for good and decided I'd pursue my life's dream of just playing and performing guitar.

Anyway, so much for my drama.

Guys, how do you begin to learn how to compose flamenco? It's something I have been a little confused with. Though thinking about it excites me, it manages to make my head hurt because how do you compose awesome sounding falsettas that would manage to fit a 12 beat compas?

I could imagine it would take loads of creativity to try composing one. It baffles me how Gerardo Nunez came up with that awesome falsetta in "Hacia mi" or how Vicente magically fits a jazzy line in an Alegria. Apparently, these nuevo flamenco geniuses have managed to escape from being trapped with predictable sounding falsettas and they use all sorts of odd timing, accents and syncopations.

Any suggestions? tips or help on beginning composing flamenco?

Thanks!

This topic comes up a lot. Sometimes I am nice and political about it, other times not. Sorry but it is my "not political" day. At risk of hurting feelings (again sorry) I will say the same as I have in the past. If you HAVE TO ASK, then you simply SHOULD NOT be composing or trying to compose anything. For risk have being not authentic and not having done your homework and revealing you have not enough hours of study under the belt yet. Your goal should be the same as any player, to play with taste and style and flamenco sound and feeling, that's all. Composing comes when you have no other way to express what you need to.

So that means you dont' compose, you should be working on and studying the maestros and the tradition. Stick with that for now.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 20:23:10

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

I once had extremely and unrealistic high demands when it came to composing. I wanted it to be totally unique and threw away everything that even remotely reminded me to music of others, even when it came from totally different styles of music. As a result hardly anything survived and whatever did often turned out to be a frankenstein composition of partly recycled material after all (you might not notice for years that your wonderful melody is stolen from a record you played (and disliked) years before or your material has the same harmonic/rhythmic setup as a very famous song.

Composing is basically a matter of just siting down with the intend to create and there can be various ways/reasons to start. Lots of the material i made was made because there was a need of it. When i received my first lesson in musical theory i was told to compose 3 melodies for second next week lesson. I never composed anything before (although my father somehow saved a forgotten composition i made at the age of 12). So i suddenly found myself in my student room at the age of 24 with the task to create for the first time ever. I sat down and surged for inspiration..... the first days i failed to produce the goods because nothing came up or it turned out to be stollen. But suddenly i found a theme of 6 notes that turned out to be a great spark of inspiration. Out of nothing i produced a wonderful polyphonic melody with great view and development that came to me with incredible ease, like the song wrote itself once the first notes were there. Like many of the best songs i and others composed it was indeed composed in the same amount of time that is needed to play it. I once illustrated this phenomenon using my song and an equally catching song of Ive Duteil that also seems to writes itself after the first notes are there. It was at that exact moment (10 years after i composed it) i suddenly realized that the wonderful and pretty adventures harmonic development of both pieces were basically identical. But being so different in style of music the similarity might not even strike the original composer. When i played it to 1 of my musical heros (Flairck who produced 22 self composed records) they wanted to hear it over and over again.

Another beautiful song i composed that wrote itself in seconds turned out to have a identical harmony and basically the same melody as 1 of the most famous songs in the world. It took me 10 years to realize that song was already written and most people are not able to guess the original (although they all know it). This kinds of thing happen over and over again.

Although composing is simply a matter of sitting down with the intention to create i hardly ever do so, which is a shame because i believe i do have a certain talent to recycle music in decent and tasteful way. Part of the material i made was made because there was a need of it (compositorial tasks for my former musical education, lack of appealing/playable alternatives or simply creating material to fit the dance choreographies i encountered). Still most was made because i felt like it. All you need is a spark of inspiration. I recently run trough a collection of webcam recordings i made over the years, mainly small takes to save a musical idea as well as deliberate improvisation sessions (which happens to be a great way to find yourself some compositorial sparks). But like i said before, composing basically is just a matter of sitting down with the intention to create. Sometimes you struggle, sometimes you hit gold and sometimes you find 1 or more sparks you can work on later (a nice chord, phrase or whatever) but it all comes down to sit down and just do it. I feel much happier now i have embraced the option to accept influences (or even quotes) of others.

The general development is you start studying/playing material of others, you change a couple of variations to your abilities..... over time you put in a little more of yourself varying from altering a note here and there, replacing some variations for ones you created yourself and gradually work your way up. One day you might end up playing a whole piece you created yourself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:10:42

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

Also here is an important topic to check out:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=206949&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=composing

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:30:34

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

But like i said before, composing basically is just a matter of sitting down with the intention to create.

Oh dear. While what you have composed could be of great beauty and totally original, the odds are stacked against it being anything but trite.
Be advised it takes talent to produce works of beauty or inspiration. Perhaps because because flamenco seems more defined by technique (fast picado) than anything else you might be forgiven for imagining you are an accomplished composer.

Composing is basically a matter of just siting down with the intend to create

Well no...it takes talent which cannot be bought or stolen. Training is needed to back up the talent, but make no mistake, talent is the magic ingredient. I was trained in architecture so I am not unaware of the design process and the effort needed to create something worthwhile. Now prove me wrong by posting a brilliant composition.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:42:12

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

Perhaps because because flamenco seems more defined by technique (fast picado) than anything else you might be forgiven for imagining you are an accomplished composer.

Seriously, you are delusional. You're so brainwashed by the old school "anything that's not classical is not a composition".

quote:

Now prove me wrong by posting a brilliant composition.

No one will ever be able to prove you wrong because you don't see anything other then classical being a brilliant composition. You're confusing your opinion with fact. I've heard great compositions by many a folk on this forum.

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:49:40

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

You're confusing your opinion with fact. I've heard great compositions by many a folk on this forum.

What constitutes a great composition then show me an example.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:56:26

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

quote:

But like i said before, composing basically is just a matter of sitting down with the intention to create.

Well no...it takes talent which cannot be bought or stolen. Training is needed to back up the talent, but make no mistake, talent is the magic ingredient. .

Still it is basically a matter of just sitting down with the intention to create.....

If you lack experience/talent you end up creating crap but it is equally truth that if you have the required experience/talents but never sit down to create you remain empty handed as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 21:59:14

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

What constitutes a great composition then show me an example.

Anything by John Walsh, Ricardo, imiJ_xirdneH, among others............

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:06:34

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

Subjective,,,,,,,,,,,and you know it my dear, eighty something year old agitator!!

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:10:42

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

Subjective

Then their is no standard for gauging worth. Case closed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:18:02

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

What constitutes a great composition then show me an example.

You would not be able to recognize/appreciate it... unless your comments on above and other post were mend to be brilliantly ironical.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=239913&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#239927

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:25:15

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

That's b.u.l.l.s.h.I.t.e. and you know it....spout a line that's worth an argument and take part in a way that's as grown up as you portray to be....and its 'there' not 'their'
I do love your input....it tickles my superiority!

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:26:51

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

Actually there is actually an example of spotaneaous composition posted here, in fact a veritable textbook of compositional devices.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=239862&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#240210

Now I am going to assume that you may actually be interested in architecture with respect to composition. But similarly I am aware of your weakness for mocking that which you do not understand.

That may be fun but please take this suggsetion which is , I assure you much more fun. Take any Schubert Lieder, and since I believe you may have some acquantance with the classical guitar what better than Mertz arrangement of six Schubertian songs.

Study them long and hard a good place to start is Standchen, here is a sweet version

Note Schuberts use of pivot chords as devices to aid modulation. Then draw a chord chart. Note that each modulation only enhances the original tonality with the key of a section function mainly as the temporary tonic would as a stand alone chord in a purely diatonic progression.

This would be one way of gaining a true understanding of architecture.

Then go back to flamenco. Watch Jason's video over and over and note how he is absolutely conversant with this technique as it pertains to flamenco. See how the related flamenco modes colour and enhance the home mode and allow him to embellish simple structures.

I doubt that you have done the Schubert thing but I have and it is a far simpler place to start than where Jason is at (no disrespect to Schubert but that was a long time ago and besides it should be obvious that I love Schubert

Then make a serious attempt at understanding traditional flamenco falsetas and chord formulea you can try and find your own way of experimenting with and expanding your modal harmonic vocabularly. In paralell transcribe either note for not or with a chord chart the more developed solos of Paco, Vicente etc.

When you have a true sense of musical architecture you will be be able to talk to those who do without resorting to nose pulling and maybe they will overlook that fact that you once took such pride in being a bag of wind.

D.

PS I used that particular suggestion as that is, I assume from his bio and educational background, how Jason proceeded.
If you want another route take a jazz standard and harmonize the tune using chords one four and five. Then look at the published changes in a real book. Work out how to get from the three chord version to the jazz version and back.
Then skip to the second half of my post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:30:25

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to pink)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pink

I do love your input....it tickles my superiority!

Best

pink

What a wonderful phrase (especially coming from you).... you might have the talent to become a great composer :-).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:31:24

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

Anyway back to the serious question.

Carlo I agree with Todd and Ricardo to a great extent. But there is something really simple that you can do and that is transpostition. Take say a section of a solea falseta say Am C F6 E7 that you really like.

So that would be in E phrygian. Jump the whole thing back a string and work out a version that is as close to the original as you can manage. The chords would be Em G C6 B7 (B phrygian). Now when something is hard cheat ie, that C6 can be tricky to get to so use CMaj7 instead. You will have made a choice and followed the form so by jingo now you are composing.

Jump in the other direction. Dm F Bb6 A7 (a phygain/por medio). Not much room there so you will have to make more decisions, do more composing. But be as lazy as possible with the composing, try and keep as much of the original as possible and grudgingly 'cheat' with composing when that isn't possible. Another way to put this is respect the form above all.

I hope that that made some sense. And above all enjoy yourself.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:45:59

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Thanks Erik....the subject deserved a subjective answer which subjectively responded by way of a subjective answer to the subject which begged for a subjectively superior answer.
Although my wife said that
'NA NA,
NA NA NA '
Would have done the job.
Subjective I know but...............

Oh
Best as always

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:46:13

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to pink)

I prefer ahem

'na nana nana nana nana na(beat)
na nana nana nana nana na '

You see I suspect Aeolus is an iambic pentameter kind of a guy.

D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:50:57

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Thanks D , I think you may be correct!

Best to you

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2013 22:54:48

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

Here are a couple ideas that come to mind:

1. confine yourself to a melody with only chord tones
2. confine yourself to a melody with 1, 2, or 3 notes
3. confine yourself to a melody of only eigth notes
4. etc. (that is, find one element and force yourself to work with it)
5. find some flamenco singing and transcribe the melody and arrange it for guitar
6. now vary that melody in as many ways, and as using as many devices, as possible (make some of the notes longer, some shorter, use different rhythmic patterns, change the chords, change the scale, etc)

But I do agree that generally the student should spend way more time imitating and learning than composing.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ

Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 0:00:54

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

5. find some flamenco singing and transcribe the melody and arrange it for guitar

We should all do more of this !!

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 0:04:14

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarloJuan

how do you compose awesome sounding falsettas that would manage to fit a 12 beat compas?

I could imagine it would take loads of creativity to try composing one. It baffles me how Gerardo Nunez came up with that awesome falsetta in "Hacia mi" or how Vicente magically fits a jazzy line in an Alegria. Apparently, these nuevo flamenco geniuses have managed to escape from being trapped with predictable sounding falsettas and they use all sorts of odd timing, accents and syncopations.

Any suggestions? tips or help on beginning composing flamenco?

Thanks!

Before you can think about making your own material you must be able to understand/speak the language of flamenco. You must know by experience/intuition which phrases belong to which part of the compas (or how to alter a phrase to make it fit). Once you have that level of understanding you will be able to channel your ideas into a compas. I have that level of understanding to a certain extent and my compositions reflect that level of understanding (both in a positive and a negative sense). Sometimes luck helps you a hand; various times a melodic line or combination of lines i investigated turned out to clinch with each other or the compas so i had to add/skip a few notes. Often this destroys the fun but sometimes the result is even more spectacular then you could have brained out yourself :-).

Personally i find my inspiration in chords, harmonies or melodic phrases i explore. Another option is to start with an exiting rhythm first and then find yourself some matching notes. It can even make you compose melodies you never ever would have found when thinking melodically from the very start. You can create that rhythm yourself or use/alter an existing one like ToddK suggested.

One of my first compositions was a set of Sevillanas i had to compose for my teacher of musical theory. I had played various sevillanas before but never studied it from a compositorial point of view. My father explained me the structure and asked me to create a melody on this pattern which was supposed to be the last phrase of the melody as well as the openings melody:

&/1&/2&/3&/4&/5&/6&/1&/2&/3
X/XX/XX/X.../XX/XX/--X/XX/XX/-

It was pretty hard to find a matching melody and i rejected many variations before i found this one that i really liked.

--0/-0-0-/-0------------------------------------------------------
----------------3-/1~-/-1-0------3/~3-0-/-1-1-/-0-----------
-------------------------------/-2------------------------2/~2---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The next day i created 4 sevillanas that were later played as an ensemble piece on my final exam. Above quote wasn't part of any of them but it included a quite similar one

-5-/-5-5-/-5-3-/-2--/-2-0--------------------------------------
-------------------------------/3--/---/-2--/-0-2-/-3------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------

or the more melodic variation

-5-/-5-7-/-3-5-/-2--/-2-0--------------------------------------
-------------------------------/3--/---/-2--/-0-2-/-3------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Guitarbudda already mentioned you can translate material to an other key. But it is also possible to translate material from one palo to the other or to use a phrase of it or the harmonic development. Quite often i do this without knowing and it can takes weeks, mounts or even years before you realize the beautiful falseta you made was again based on Paco or Vicente who played it in a totally different palo. Once i deliberately translated a bulerias falseta into a tangos falsete in order to make myself a nice beginners falseta. A couple of years later a student made a bulerias of it again (speaking about recycling).

I recycle material all the time:

First i composed this Sevillanas intro (part of the set mentioned above)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------0---------------------------------
------------/0--3--/2~0-----0---0---------------------------------
--------1------------------/4----/-4-x--/-x--1~/4--1~/4--1-/0-
----/3----------------------------------------------------------------
.......1.and/2 and/3 and/4 and/5and/6 and/1 and/2 and/ 3

A couple of years later i used a similar phrase to make myself a tangos falseta for beginners

--------------------------------------------0--0-----------------------------
--------------------------------------------2--2----2-----2-----------------
--------------------------------------------2--2----2-----2-----------------
------------/0--3--/2~0------------------2--2----2-----2-----------------
--------1------------------/4---1-/0----/-0--0-/--0----/0-----------------
----/3------------------------------------------------------------------------
.......1.and/2 and/3 and/4 and/1and/2 and/3 and/4 and/

after you played above variation twice you can add a second half to make a complete falseta out of it:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------/0--3--/2--x--/-x--x--------/-0--3--/2--x-/-x--x-----------
--------1-------------------------------1-----------------------------------
----/3------------------------------/3--------------------------------------
.......1.and/2 and/3 and/4 and/1and/2 and/3 and/4 and/

obviously you round it up by repeating the first half

--------------------------------------------0--0----0------0-----------------
--------------------------------------------2--2----2------2-----------------
--------------------------------------------2--2----2------2-----------------
------------/0--3--/2~0------------------2--2----2-----2-----------------
--------1------------------/4---1-/0----/-0--0-/--0----/0-----------------
----/3------------------------------------------------------------------------
.......1.and/2 and/3 and/4 and/1and/2 and/3 and/4 and/

When i was in need of a beginners falseta for Seguiriyas i molded it into the compas of Seguiriyas

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------0---------------------------2--x-----------/2--x---x--x---
------------0--3--/2~0------0--0------------------------------------2--x------------------
---------1-----------------4----/-4-x--x--1~4--1~/-0--x----------------------------------
----/3-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....1.and to the/2and to the/3 je ke and to the/4.re.ke and to the/5 and to the

This one needs a second half as well to make a complete falseta out of it (which in my mind pictures itself in seconds).

As you can see i play almost the same line in seguiriyas and sevillanas, all i do is mold it to the compas.

Sevillanas

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------0---------------------------------
------------/0--3--/2~0-----0---0---------------------------------
--------1------------------/4----/-4-x--/-x--1~/4--1~/4--1-/0-
----/3----------------------------------------------------------------
.......1.and/2 and/3 and/4 and/5and/6 and/1 and/2 and/ 3

becomes Seguiriyas
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------0---------------------------2--x-----------/2--x---x--x---
------------0--3--/2~0------0--0------------------------------------2--x------------------
---------1-----------------4----/-4-x--x--1~4--1~/-0--x----------------------------------
----/3-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....1.and to the/2and to the/3 je ke and to the/4.re.ke and to the/5 and to the

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 5:50:45

SLJ

Posts: 85
Joined: Jul. 12 2013
From: Houston Texas

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

I don't know if composing and making "stuff" up, would be similar,, but Ive always tried to do the making stuff up bit. On any instrument. When you "make it up" its just following your ear,,, and for me,,, what your fingers are able to accomplish. I made up something yesterday,,, that just kinda happened ,,, it had some horquilla,{I hope} some tremolo, and some rasquedos and its fun to play , and hopefyully, playing this simple will get easier, and it sort of evolve.
as far as it being a composition, for me to call it that would be silly,

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 14:33:53

Dave K

Posts: 155
Joined: Mar. 29 2006

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 3 2018 16:46:24

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 19:33:13

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to Dave K)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave K

"composing flamenco" is an oxymoron.

If a flower arranger creates a nice combination of colors and shapes we can admire the resulting composition (or if you like arrangement). If a musician creates a nice combination of colors and shapes we also tend to call it a composition or arrangement (depending on the level of involvement). I believe in music the process that leads to what we call "composition" is called composing. Or do you think pieces like this are just a random collection of falsetas/compas variations?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 22 2013 22:12:50

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to Dave K)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave K

"composing flamenco" is an oxymoron.

Ah, you would prefer 'compostion in flamenco' or 'flamenco composing' or 'writing flamenco music' or 'composing flamenco music'.

Well one of them may avoid aggravating your personal grammatical foibles.

But why oxymoron ? I mean em flamenco music does you know........exist.....

I mean I've got that right, haven't I.

Like I am wearing shoes and you know shoes have been around for a long time so I guess no one individual invented shoes. Kind of 'composed by anonymous' eh ?. But like these shoes, you know the ones I'm wearing, the ones I mentioned earlier, they were designed by someone, weren't they ?

Or,,,,,,wait a minute maybe you are right maybe the supreme father shoe is so awesome that no one man can take credit for desingning a pair of shoes.

No that's not it maybe you mean that shoe designers aren't really designers at all. Not like chair designers.

I mean this chair I'm sitting on is like awesome man better than shoes, why walk when you can sit. Yeah this sure is comfy.

Hold on a minute!!!!!!! Are you saying my chair was designed by a buftie, are you calling my chair pretentious.

(hold on GB, breathe... put that pint tumbler down.... smile)

Well, maybe chairs should be more like shoes after all. It took me a while but I got there.

Thanks Dave, that was like you know deep man but I think we all learned something.

D.

NEWSFLASH

Good grief my shoes have just disappeared, and the chairs turning into a rock...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 0:45:16

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I've always found rocks really comfy.....do you think I could be a fan of ye olde fabled rocking chair?

Best to you D

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2013 22:32:26

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to CarloJuan)

The problem I have with flamenco is illustrated in the PDL video above which starts out in a very lyrical fashion abut then shifts into flamenco flash mode and becomes overly percussive as a result of the attack. If this is your thing fine but it doesn't exploit the main strengths of the guitar. It is possible to play without such a percussive attack as the admirable Kuang JunHong demonstrates in what would have to be considered great music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2013 23:04:06

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Composing Flamenco (in reply to aeolus)

Interesting, you think the guitar's main strength is its lyrical nature? Taste is subjective, but that's absolutely crazy. Strumming, that is, when the guitar is used as a percussion and harmonic instrument simultaneously, is the guitar's main strength. Lyricism, which depends on legato and dynamics (volume gradation), is one of the guitar's biggest weaknesses. Why don't you come over to http://www.classicalguitarforum.com/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 24 2013 23:07:26