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Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal
How can I survive boredom while prac...
Hey guys, since last Christmas I haven't had the chance to invest much time into guitar and therefore I haven't improved as much as I wished. I also was one and a half months without playing because of a finger injury, which didn't help, along with other problems. But now I can and I want to dedicate myself more to guitar. This month I have some time and I want to practice for 6 hours a day or so, mostly exercises (rasgueos, pulgar, picados and arpeggios, one hour for each at least). The problem is that after half an hour of exercices I will certainly die of boredom and that's not good.
What should I do to keep entertained while practising? What did you guys who practised for 8 hours a day used to do while practising technique and endurance exercises?
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
You can practice tedious exercises with a metronome while watching TV. Talk radio would work, too. You will have to choose programs that don't have much--or any--music and be prepared to mute commercials due to music as well. This is only for repetitive exercises--it works well for endless hours of practice of scales, arps, etc.
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
Something that has worked for me in the past has been to fit my guitar with a piece of foam so as to kill the sound, then practice arpeggios, rasgeados, picado, pulgar and alzapua whilst watching TV.
You will be surprised at the amount of practice you can gather whilst doing that... I reached a point where I could practice throughout a 2 hour + long film.
This approach only concerns the right hand though since the aim is not to make music, but just practice the basic right hand techniques with a muted guitar.
I also haven't had time to practice properly in the past 2 years, it's horrible how quickly your technique can go down without proper practice... what's even more depressing is how long it takes to build it back up!
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
Mindless practice equals mindless playing. Try practicing something that engages you instead of bores you. You only play as well as you as you practice so if you're bored the listeners will be twice as bored. That kind of brain not engaged busy fingers practice is what gets you tendonitis too. And the idea that many teachers and players say; over practicing leads to practicing your mistakes.... is something to think about.
Or you could get cable and watch reruns of Gilligans Island.
I think it takes much less time to practice technical than many think. If you disengage while you practice it will take longer to make it part of your technique, but if you target specific problems and work at them for ten-fifteen minutes a day or less every day they will get learned. I'd find solo pieces that have technical challenges and work on those as part of a technique building program. But I would be careful practicing disengagement between the body, your brain and the guitar, if you train yourself to be disengaged you'll play that way part of the time. Another way is to break the practice up into various periods during the day. Set aside 40 minutes a day to practice exercises and then take break and come back later to work on music. If have four technical problems: picado, arpeggio, alzapua, and scale work, set up a schedule to practice those problems and rotate different exercses for each problem every day. You will get a cycle that keeps the routine varied. Spend ten good focused minutes on each problem and then move on.
I worry when I hear someone is bored practicing. I'm always trying to deepen my concentration level not dull it. The instrument is one thing, it takes some physical work to master, but more of the work is mental really. You might try doing some of the work away from the instrument. Personally I never find practice boring, if I get bored I think I'm not paying attention. Mannerisms in your playing are difficult to break or correct and they can manifest when you zone out and practice mindlessly for hours. One thing I do to stay engaged is to take a written score and go through it without the guitar or cello in front of me. I do a visualization of moving though different positions and notes in order to train myself to focus deeper.
Your body is just meat, the musical brain tells the meat what to do.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to estebanana)
OK so it seems like Stephen and PGH have given completely contradictory advice.
So which do I advocate ?
Well both of course. Stephens advice holds for everyone at every level, you have to be involved in some kind of super conscious and self critical controlled practice if you wish to improve.
But we have all seen Paco during interviews 'mindlessly' practicing tremolo while answering questions.
Maybe think of it like this. As a guitarist you are a long distance runner and an acrobat all at the same time. The acrobat needs a lot of intense targeted work and to be constantly mindful of goals. The long distance runner needs a minimum level of awareness but also the ability do dissociate and to think about other things (in performance the music to follow and in practice maybe the TV or Radio).
An acrobat who runs is likely to be leaner and fitter and less prone to accident. Noone really gets excited about a runner except in a race.
D.
PS design your own excercises as Rombsix says, something as simple as looping two tricky bars can be extremely powerful. Rhythmic manipulation is great too.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
Thanks, just want to add that I have heard of many, many guitarists injuring themselves when they reach good level of play and want to go past a plateau. Personally I would err on the side of more focus an less actual physical time. I've had bouts of tendonitis just at key times when I was starting to progress and get in situations with dancers that could have allowed me to go further. if you have to stop because of an injury it can be really tough mentally, so be careful.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
yeah, but he's Itzak and we're not. He got that good by paying attention more than the average guy. Perlman is known for saying irreverent quirky stuff.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
yeah, but he's Itzak and we're not. He got that good by paying attention more than the average guy.
Mmmm. Einstein deliberately stocked his wardrobe with multiple copies of the same outfit so that he would never squander any judgement on banal decisions. Whilst mostly this was regarded as a quirk recent studies on stress have found their results to be mostly in agreement with his decision.
We each of us have only so much self control and only so many good decisions that we can make in a day. We have to be clever about when we force ourselves to make a decision and how effective it is. For guitar this means that there are only so many quality hours practice in a day. Yet the greats have always practiced much much more than that and often absent mindedly.
If someone reports that only one way of working is valid and immediately follows up with an anecdote suggesting that it can lead to problems then the strategy in question may be excellent but incomplete. Can anyone improve without clear and focused practice no. Will that always be sufficient to reach the next level, also probably no.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
I play flamenco guitar for my own enjoyment and, occasionally, for that of others when with a group. Thus, the time I spend practicing is not anywhere near that of members who are, or aspire to be, professional musicians. Nevertheless, I have to agree with Stephen. Good practice, even on repetitive exercises, demands focus, not mindless physical movement while watching television.
My own learning niche has been to practice playing a reasonable flamenco tremolo (PIAMI). This is not something I could have accomplished by unfocused movement (PIAMI) while watching television or reading E-mails. In my case, such practice would not have resulted in a dead-on, steady tremolo; rather, it was the other way around. By intensely focusing on a dead-on, steady tremolo in practice session after practice session, I found that I eventually was able to play it without focusing on it or thinking much about it.
My final thought on practice is that it should not be boring. If one practices six hours a day, the entire six hours should be devoted to the idea of improving on what one is practicing. The reward will be eventual breakthrough to a higher level. That alone should spur one on to practice. If boredom sets in after awhile, perhaps one should think about reducing the practice time.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
This is not something I could have accomplished by unfocused movement (PIAMI) while watching television or reading E-mails.
Bill
Is anyone advocating unfocused movement ? I AM NOT and I suspect that noone else is. But I guess my question about dichotomies has an answer. One must be induced quickly otherwise how would else would we go round in circles ?
Just for clarity I think that Stephen's post has a lot of wisdom. But I also that Perlman may occasionally be earnest and that this may be one such occasion.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
Is anyone advocating unfocused movement ? I AM NOT and I suspect that noone else is.
My post was to portray my experience in practice, particularly tremolo, and the reference to unfocused physical movement while watching television was more a response to pgh's post. Really, Guitarbuddha, you should distance yourself from the idea that every post is all about you.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
That is a funny discussion topic! I have done various things. Meditation, getting stoned, and watching a movie are things that come to mind. This only works for repetitious things like scales and technique. Composition and study of new material should be interesting enough to stay inspired. I would not recommend this for too long as physical damage will occur in time. Everyone is different, and some people hold more tension than others. That tension call destroy you! Be careful and take breaks to stretch!
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
Well, actually endless, mindless, hours does have a purpose which is muscular development. It's the same reason cyclists have to put in the road miles endlessly pedaling. It doesn't really make you a better guitarist, but helps develop the tools which do the job for you, which are your muscles. This in effect gives you something which can be used with focused thoughtful practice to make you a better guitarist.
Somebody posted once that it's just mind control over muscle's in your fingers, but this is only a half truth. You have to do the road miles to develop the muscles that your mind needs to control.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
I didn't suggest mindless, unfocused practice. If your development has progressed to the point that you can develop a groove with a metronome for a simple drill and a distraction like TV doesn't cause you to fall out of that groove than practicing drills while watching TV can be productive. This is mostly for muscle development--strength, speed, agility, muscle memory.
Also, metronome usage is not mentioned often enough as a practice tool on this forum. If you are serious about learning to play an instrument practice with a metronome is a necessity.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to n85ae)
I have read more than one elite-level player admit he practices while watching TV or otherwise distracted. Howard Johnson wrote, there is mental practice and there is motor practice, and don't ever think that the former will get you out of the latter (or something like that). The very fast player Philip Hii told me he would read books while practice repetitive movements like tremolo and arpeggios. I have spent some time surfing the net while playing arpeggios. It works.
6 hours is too long to play focused for a sustained amount of time IMO. If for some reason you need to put in that much time, you should delegate part of that time to mindless work. Just realize that you can injure yourself. I would be worried it could lead to focal dystonia.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
But we have all seen Paco during interviews 'mindlessly' practicing tremolo while answering questions.
This is warming up, not practicing. Paco probably has'nt "Practiced" since he was 12 years old.
Accomplished players watching TV while warming up has nothing to do with students in their formative years zoning out on TV while practicing. I doubt you'll find a truly great player that would endorse such things.
True practice requires focus and discipline. If you're having problems getting bored while doing the thing you supposedly love and want to be great at, well, maybe you're playing the wrong instrument.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to ToddK)
Hey Todd. Firstly this is the second time that you replied directly to me since 'blocking' and defaming me. Since I said at the time I didn't expect an apology I won't complain too much about all that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ToddK
quote:
But we have all seen Paco during interviews 'mindlessly' practicing tremolo while answering questions.
This is warming up, not practicing. Paco probably has'nt "Practiced" since he was 12 years old.
Firstly those quotes round 'mindlessly' are important. Second you have implicitly defined 'warming up' and practice in two real particular ways. If that helps you contradict me then maybe it's worth the effort. Also you kind of undermine your whole thesis with that hackneyed Paco doesn't practice anymore line.
'True practice requires focus and discipline. If you're having problems getting bored while doing the thing you supposedly love and want to be great at, well, maybe you're playing the wrong instrument. '
Well thanks for you concern Todd, I have always been touched by you earnest concern for others and the generosity with which you express it. But in this case you can rest at ease as I am not getting bored in the least and in fact am enjoying music and studying music more and more with each passing year.
But as Bill said it really shouldn't be all about me but I thought this line of mine above fleshed out my rationale, don't know if you read it
Maybe think of it like this. As a guitarist you are a long distance runner and an acrobat all at the same time. The acrobat needs a lot of intense targeted work and to be constantly mindful of goals. The long distance runner needs a minimum level of awareness but also the ability do dissociate and to think about other things (in performance the music to follow and in practice maybe the TV or Radio).
'An acrobat who runs is likely to be leaner and fitter and less prone to accident.'
Don't know if you caught it. I try and not be too extreme in my views, with a little effort I can usually learn from both sides.
Posts: 2006
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)
Sometimes I practice while watching TV but what happens as I start to sound good, or focus on a passage, is that I forget the TV, look up and realize I'm not watching TV. Or, I just end up putting away the guitar and watching TV.
I have to agree with the camp that says concentrated effort is the way. Running drills for several hours while watching the Kardashian's is not likely to result in anything other than an unhealthy obsession with Kim's booty IMO.
I really like the thought that the really good players pay attention to the things the other guys don't. That takes mental energy. When I think about the skill and sound of players like Grisha or Todd, I think those type of musicians have figured out how to practice.
I was studying with a good guitarist from Madrid and he said practice slow if you want to play fast. So I played the passage slower. He goes" You call that SLOW?" So, I played it slower, still making various errors. And slower, STILL making mistakes. Finally, he gets frustrated and yells "THIS IS AN EXERCISE, CONCENTRATE!" I thought I was concentrating, but I put out more mental effort and improved immediately.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to estebanana)
smart posts estebanana.
It really is the quality of the practice that is the key factor in my experience.
My personal favourite for practicing is youtube jam tracks where I practice technique and improvisation at once and its fun and effective. I sometimes play blues backing tracks on flamenco guitar but pretty much every style. Of course rumba is one of the best for flamenco guitarist. Also improvisation is very helpful practice to learn your instrument better, especially to know what your next move will sound like. I recommend trying it at least(if you know scales).
If one chooses to increase practice time its best to do so gradually and always take breaks. Tendinitis is a serious problem and its best to stop immediately after there is some pain
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to n85ae)
quote:
Well, actually endless, mindless, hours does have a purpose which is muscular development. It's the same reason cyclists have to put in the road miles endlessly pedaling. It doesn't really make you a better guitarist, but helps develop the tools which do the job for you, which are your muscles. This in effect gives you something which can be used with focused thoughtful practice to make you a better guitarist.
I used to be a distance swimmer, athletes that train for endurance have different needs than guitarists. In cycling and swimming muscles go into oxygen debt, in those sports athletes over overcompensate train to prepare the body to do something very different than a guitarists work.
Once I had the chance to be the student of a very great guitarist( someone known here) who had broken his wrist. I asked him to teach me just after he had gotten the cast off, but he still could not play. Over the next several weeks his wrist slowly became more supple and returned to being well enough to play. I watched as day by day the musical brain asked the wrist to do musical work. The wrist was weak, swollen and never fully regained total movement. The rehabilitation work was part physical, but mainly about reconnecting the brain to the hand. As I watched this happen I realized many rising level guitarists over work themselves to learn how to play. It was unfortunate the guy broke his wrist, but watching the recovery was an important lesson for me. What I learned is that there is more mental work than appears on the surface.
I came to believe, like many professional players I have talked to, that finger exercises are a waste of time and that most of the technical work you can do is right there in the music. If you play flamenco and you ever play for dance classes you get your endurance training right there. So if you do finger work and watch TV ok fine, but you are risking damage to yourself physically and mentally, or not damage but dulling your senses by zoning out.
I'm just saying repetitive guitar playing motion and strength is different that other athletic strength and can be gained by regular practice. It's not in my opinion something that has to be over compensated for as in an endurance event. Guitar playing puts stress on small joints and tendons which can be injured easily it's not a good idea to test those by over loading. If you were to pedal a bike with your fingers, you would injure them.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to estebanana)
I think that estebanana is quite right. We play for music's sake in the end. Some exercises are helpful for development. I have done them for years and they have helped to a point. Practicing with a metronome is really helpful for getting the compas. I think you have to practice with a goal. What are you hoping to achieve? I personally am more interested in accompaniment, so endless hours of technique really do more harm than good for me at this point. Listening to music, playing along and focusing on cadence are where it's at for me these days. Everyone has their own path towards their development. So one has to really decide for themselves what is best for them.
RE: How can I survive boredom while ... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
]
I used to be a distance swimmer, athletes that train for endurance have different needs than guitarists. In cycling and swimming muscles go into oxygen debt, in those sports athletes over overcompensate train to prepare the body to do something very different than a guitarists work.
If you were to pedal a bike with your fingers, you would injure them.
Boxers run and skip repetitively. One is for general fitness and one is for balance and coordination. Both are done to the point of being automatic, both are aerobic. Boxing is fiercely anearobic. Whilst it is possible to work only on the deep artistry of boxing, with ring work exclusively, those boxers tend to tire easily and to be fat and easily put off balance.
Also if a boxer punches with his fingers he is liable to break them, although I can't quite place who suggested that.....
D.
(I believe that the term is overloading and not overcompensating, though I can check with my friend Dr Freud)
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