Dehumidifier Dilemma

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constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Dehumidifier Dilemma

Seattle, WA, USA, where I live is very rainy and lately it has been very humid, rainy, and warm (for Seattle, 72 degrees F). I have relied on a Kenmore (Sears) brand dehumidifier for about 20 years to keep my basement shop at about 45% relative humidity (except when it has flooded, then I used a Shop Vac, too). For about 20 years I never had a problem with my dehumidifier. Then this week it wasn't working very well. Moisture was condensing on the outside and it wasn't keeping the air dry enough. So I put it on top of an upturned bucket in the laundry sink. Then I took off the cover and discovered a three-inch thick block of ice over the coils. I just finished getting rid of the ice with a hair dryer and it seems to be working okay now. Does anyone know why this happened?

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 4:04:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

If it's anything like a freezer then it means it's timing is messed up. They're supposed to go through a defrost cycle and when the timer breaks it can either go through the defrost cycle too quickly, not often enough, or sometimes not at all. It'll continue working if you keep melting the ice off it

Big pain in the arse though. Sears may sell the little timer part too though........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 4:25:16

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

if the dehumidifier has been running for 20 years it could be parts are getting old and maybe a new dehumidifier is needed. it would be interesting to see if sears has the brand and/or parts and if so what the cost will be.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 8:08:08

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to keith)

Thanks, guys.

I suppose it could be a little old.... I got the ice off around 8:30 p.m. and it's 3:30 a.m. now and it's working fine and peering in I see there's no ice on the coils. (My right arm woke me up, after a whole day of polishing.)

I actually tried to replace or back it up today. Went to the hardware store and picked out the one that seemed nicest and tried to buy it. The cashier scanned the barcode and found that it couldn't be sold because of a manufacturer recall. Which reminds me that after I got the Sears one, Sears sent someone out to rewire it because of a fire hazard, which was amazing.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 10:46:16

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Leñador)

Thanks again, Lenador. I just found this video in which a woman fixes a unit that looks very much like mine inside, by adding a thermostat to do what you described. It is such a good video that I think I could actually do it now.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 11:37:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Awesome! Glad I could be of some sort of help!

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 14:15:20

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

How dirty were the coils? Sawdust, and dust accumulation could cause the coils to ice up.
Removing the ice may have cleaned them off, and it may start running ok again.
20 years is awesome, you won't find anything now that will last half that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 18:43:50

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Sean)

I was wondering the same thing but the first time I looked at the coils was after I deiced them. They were pretty clean then, just a few small wood chips which I brushed off. I sure hope it's good for another 20 years.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2013 20:03:13

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Ethan, you just need to buy a hair drier and Mc Guyver it on a timer so that it turns on and melts the ice when temperture controlled switch trips.

all you need is:

temp switch,
Hair drier,
timer

go rig this up!

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 10:53:46

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to estebanana)

That's a good idea, Stephen. But I always wonder what work I could entrust to an assistant--since I can barely trust myself--so maybe I should hire someone to stand there and do that.

Anyway, I am so relieved that it is still working fine about 33 hours after the 20-year deicing, with no sign of icing up again.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 12:42:40

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

That could've been 6 months worth of ice......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 14:27:14

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Were you also running an air conditioner at the same time? Cool air in the room can cause any dehumi to ice up.
My teacher had one that appeared to be from the 1960s or so, still worked fine but it iced up if we left it on and forget to turn the AC off.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2013 22:59:25

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Hi, Andy. No air conditioning. And it has been unusually warm. But very humid--like, raining all the time. By the way, Andy, don't you also have a Kenmore? I thought I saw a photo of yours with the same model I have.

Lenador--I think it was just a few days worth of ice because it was working fine before.

It's still working again as well as before the ice incident.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 1:47:48

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I've been researching dehumidies- There are two kinds, compressor and heat exchange. Here in Japan they use the compressor in the wet months and the heater type in the dry months. ( I suspect this is part sales ploy part actual nessesity) They also have a hybrid model where they put both types in the same unit it switches when the whether gets cold. I simply bought a compressor type. Just saying that is anyone has air conditioning problems and icing you can get two types of unit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 4:12:50

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Compressor and Desiccant. The compressor type is all I've ever seen for sale; they work like a fridge, freezer, and air conditioner. The desiccant is a totally different animal altogether, it does work better at colder temperatures apparently, but cost a lot more.
Cold, damp weather, is not usually a problem for a lot of us, because when it gets cold the heat comes on, and dries out the air.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 5:22:00

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I have desicant Dehumidifier which is also about the same price as the compressor type over here. I have found it to be much better and far more energy efficient and half the size too!

Im amazed that your dehumidier has lasted so long! I'm on my third one in 10 years. Hopefully this one will last a long time! At £120 a machine it's not too bad really. I have two clients that have bought one already. I was thinking of supplying them with every guitar!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:14:31

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

At £120 a machine it's not too bad really

That's cheap! Does it have a humidistat built in?
And what model is it please?

I too have gone through a couple of dehumidifiers before the present one, a Mitsubishi that is excellent, but cost around £330.

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Kevin Richards

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:24:20

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

I have two clients that have bought one already. I was thinking of supplying them with every guitar!

Why would your clients need to dehumidify (or humidify)? If you've built the guitar at 40-50% there will be no problem, unless they keep the guitar in an exceptionally humid (or dry) environment.

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:26:59

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I was having a laugh about offering everyone a dehumidifier because the unit is soo cheap.

The two clients that have bought the same unit, both live by the sea and have both constantly moaned about their guitars sounding like someone has stuffed them full of cotton wool. Both have similar humidity problems at up to 70%, They bought the Dehumidifier and bang all problems solved!

I build at 40-45% but mainly 45% I do hate these little inconsistencies though, If could achieve 45% at all times I would.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 10:49:11

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Stephen Eden)

SE den--if your clients live in an environment where the humidity is high and the temperature is cool thus negating the use of an A/C they may want to get an Eva-Dry portable de-humidifier. I use the 333 model which fits into the compartment in the case (the compartment lid needs to be removed) or can fit into the head area. I have found the Eva-Dry will reduce the humidity inside of the case by 10-15 points. Once the Eva-Dry is saturated one needs to plug it into a wall electrical socket for a few hours which allows moisture to be removed and one is good to go. The 333 model costs about $20.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 12:39:38

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Cheers kieth - but these guys own at least 5-10 guitars each and £120 is not a big investment considering the value of their guitars.

With the Dehumidier they own they can set thier humidistat to 45% and keep the guitars in the Humidity they were build for.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 15:13:36

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Stephen Eden)

makes sense with those number of guitars. right now here in boston it is, in my apartment, 72 degrees and 85% humidity--i have 2 eva dry units going inside of my case.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2013 17:19:02

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

Hi, Andy. No air conditioning. And it has been unusually warm. But very humid--like, raining all the time. By the way, Andy, don't you also have a Kenmore? I thought I saw a photo of yours with the same model I have.

I have a Whirlpool. I can't remember what kind my teacher has but it might have been similar to yours.

By the way I envy your climate out in the Pacific Northwest. I don't like hot weather, cool and rainy is fine for me. My grandfather used to live in Portland and I remember loving it out there.
Summers even here in upstate NY can be pretty uncomfortable with high humidity and temperatures hitting the 90s fairly often.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2013 13:56:35

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

Im amazed that your dehumidier has lasted so long! I'm on my third one in 10 years. Hopefully this one will last a long time!

Stephen, my experience is the same as yours. I've tried several different brands and none has lasted more than 3-4 years. They don't freeze up and they're not dirty they just quit working.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2013 14:03:50

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

With the cold weather beginning, I have been having more freeze-ups. I didn't want to buy one of the new dehumidifiers that don't last very long and was considering buying a really expensive kind. But I went ahead and bought a "refrigerator controller" from Grainger for $17 that is supposed to regulate the temperature wherever you want between 34 and 55 degrees F. I set it for 34 degrees F and cut out the old sensor that was clamped to the cooling coils and not working and put this one in its place--it is much like the one in the video, with a long aluminum wire for a sensor. I covered electrical connections well with electrical tape to keep water out of them and I also insulated the six inches or so of sensor (with electrical tape) that I didn't wrap around cooling coils so I could push the switch into the compressor compartment where it might not get dripped on.
It's working! Amazing.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2013 19:19:41

estebanana

Posts: 9368
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

You Mc Guyvered it. I like when that works.

So long will it last now? Another 20 years?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2013 23:42:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Dehumidifier Dilemma (in reply to estebanana)

Another 20 years would be nice. I wonder, though, if another part will wear out next, as would happen with a car. I'm wondering if I should oil the fan....

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2013 2:26:07