CANTE

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CANTE

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

CANTE

Okay, so I've built up quite a few Flamenco CDs recently, and am enjoying most of them. The thing is that I have plenty of solo guitar CDs and hardly any cante stuff. This is mainly because I find cante quite hard to listen to as it is an acquired taste and often gets in the way of hearing the guitar parts.
However, apparently cante is a very important part of Flamenco, so I would like to buy a few CDs that feature cante. So far, I have only Estrella Morente's "My songs and a poem" album, and I recently bought the DVD of Vicente Amigo's "Cuidad De Las Ideas" (if that counts as cante?). I also plan to buy the hEMIsphere album that another member recommended.
If anyone can recommend some good CDs featuring cante and guitar I would be very grateful. But preferably something quite easy to listen to. Also I have no Camaron CDs, so if someone can recommend a good album featuring Camaron and Paco, or Camaron and Tomatito, I will check them out.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2005 17:29:59

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Paco and camarón. "Arte y majestad" is a favorite.
[1970]cada vez que nos miramos
"nuestro Camarón" is great.
1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2005 17:41:04

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Paris 1986-1987 - Camaron and Tomatito Live. Get the DVD as well - excellent choice
Capullo de Jerez - En Directo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2005 18:01:34

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: CANTE (in reply to duende)

quote:

1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas

...que brillan, como Luc(ife)ero....

That's defininitely one of my all-time favourite Albums.

Only, on my LP it's just called" El Camaron de la Isla con el colaboracion de Paco de Lucia".

Gotta get a new needle for this gramophone of mine...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2005 20:44:44

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: CANTE (in reply to Ron.M)

Thanks everyone- useful info here. I am looking into purchasing these albums even as we speak. As it happens I had already bought the "1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas" album on Ebay and am waiting for it to arrive. It is also titled "El Camaron...", but according to flamenco-world they are the same album:

https://www.flamenco-world.com/tienda/shop.php?&vshopferca=f0a2c8f42a6728f70482b88d008e4f23&op_shop=show&id_prod=3824&id_cat=

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2005 21:30:09

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Curo Pinana, Miguel Poveda, Guadiana, Montse Cortes are quite easy to listen to.

My hole time favourite is Arcangel tho, i dont know how easy it is to listen to or not tho, you have to get used to his style.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 1:41:24

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Also try Fosforito with Paco de lucia Vol 1-3. Fosforito´s voice is not as welcoming as Camarón but he sings very good.
Pacos guitar is also a perfect book on HOW to accompany cante.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 5:32:06

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
and I recently bought the DVD of Vicente Amigo's "Cuidad De Las Ideas" (if that counts as cante?).

...hmmm well, probably not. IMO the big difference here is that the cante is really just there to supplement the guitar, rather than the other way around. On most tracks the vocals are just embellishments. This is Vicente's solo stuff, after all. For flamenco this is pretty left field stuff, far too jazzy and smooth for many tastes. (BTW, I still think Vicente is one of the best guitarists out there and I think that DVD is great).

Going back to your question, you'll see that you can't go far with Camaron. I like Potito's stuff too, who is kind of thought as 'school of Camaron' if you know what I mean.

Have you got Saura's flamenco film, James? Superb mix of cante, baile and toque there, old and new. Its a nice way to sample stuff. Check out Potito accompanied by Tomatito por buleria, for example (wow). If you are familiar with the palo Tarantas, check out the amazing Carmen Linares - don't get put off by those microtones, they grow on you

[...have a chuckle at cortes who simply HAS to dance with his shirt off

]

I have to admit I find some of the 'earthy' cante harder to listen too - like the two guys who do the martinete (sp?). The opening bulerias scared crap out of me when I first saw it, now it hits the spot

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 8:22:33

Crows

Posts: 89
Joined: Sep. 27 2004

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Could I throw one in here too?

Santiago Donday and Paco Cepero - Morrongo.
Nice traditional playing and crushed velvet cante!

I'm with the other suggestions as well. I found the Saura film fascinating, a great 'summary' if you like. Paco and Fosforito, Paco and Camaron....... classic guitar/cante.

All the best, Andy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 9:23:34

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

If you find cante difficult to listen too (I'm sure we all did initially) could I suggest trying out female singers like Amalia Jandra? A lot of them don't belt it out as ferociously as most of the men.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 9:40:26

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

Have you got Saura's flamenco film, James?

No, not yet. But I will order it on DVD and check it out.

Interestingly you said that "Cuidad" was not really cante because the singing just supplements the guitar as opposed to the guitar just being there to supplement the singing. I have a feeling that a 50-50 balance between the guitar and cante would be my prefered structure for cante songs. But I will give the heavier stuff a go and see how I get on.

Thanks for all the receommendations everyone- hopefully I will develop a better appreciation for cante after listening to some of this stuff.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 9:47:03

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: CANTE (in reply to el ted)

quote:

could I suggest trying out female singers like Amalia Jandra?

Ofcourse. But I can't seem to find anything listed after searching her name at Flamenco world. What CDs/DVDs is she on?

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 9:51:09

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I will have a look at home and let you know. I have some lovely stuff by her and other- dare I say - "lighter" female singers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 12:41:08

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Found it!!! It's on Nimbus records called "Cante Adaluz" catalogue number NI3554.

Go to NImbus records at www.wyastone.co.uk then go into the 'world music' section. They have a whole range of GOOD flamenco recordings, usually live, from juregas etc. I have most of this collection, and it includes all the greats ,Chano Lobato, Paco Del Gastor etc.

A good place to start I reckon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 13:03:43

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: CANTE (in reply to el ted)

Cheers El Ted, there's quite a good selection of Flamenco CDs there, with some helpful audio clips:

http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/5554_1.ram

It all seems quite authentic too. I will certainly order a couple of them.

Thanks,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 14:36:57

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

What I would like to know is if anyone else has problems making out the lyrics! Male singers are (in a nice way) growling the song and sometimes I can't make out entire verses.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 14:58:52

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CANTE (in reply to Ryan002)

I know !! I try but i never can , as if they singing in another language or something.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 15:03:03

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Ofcourse if i had learned more than just all the swear words in Spanish might have helped.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 15:05:45

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: CANTE (in reply to Ryan002)

Don't worry you are not the only one. It frustrated the hell out of me when I first came to Spain but then I was told that many Spanish people have difficulty understanding cante. I used to make the words up myself which is how come I sang ' Como quejaba' as 'Como que haba'. They often sing words in Calo as well as making dimunitives from every other word and saying pa' for para. For instance 'las fatiguillas son pa’ los presos' You wont find fatiguillas in the Oxford dictionary but it is a derivative of fatiga meaning tired and weary.

While I am here will just say that I really admire the female singers Esperanza Fernandez, La Macanita and Remedios Amaya.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 17:03:43

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: CANTE (in reply to Kate)

quote:

saying pa' for para

Across the pond too, e.g. "Samba Pa Ti" - Santana

I like the dropping of the "d" around here as in "estoy cansao" and "mi mario" Makes things so much harder for me

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 17:06:04

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: CANTE (in reply to Kate)

quote:

While I am here will just say that I really admire the female singers Esperanza Fernandez, La Macanita and Remedios Amaya

and let's not forget Lole, a class act.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 17:11:40

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

The movie "Flamenco" has a nice blend of different singers, dancers and guitarists. Paquera kicks it off and blows you away. Getting an entire album of the wrong singer can be a big turn off. The first singer I heard and fell in love with and still love to this day is Maria Vargas. Tons of feeling and power.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 17:26:15

Guest

RE: CANTE (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

and let's not forget Lole, a class act.

and La Susi, La Perla de Cadiz, Adela la Chaqueta y La Sallago: joder, what great singers we have ( or have had).

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 21:18:54

Guest

RE: CANTE (in reply to Kate)

Kate

don´t complain: at least you can try to sing which is the most important thing. I can´t sing a note so I have to skulk in the corner and strum the guitar

un abrazo

Sean

ps Some day we shall have to meet! Granada is not so far away

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2005 21:24:59

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Great. My Spanish is already so bad that it takes me 3 seconds or so to process a phrase. I guess I'm stuck with lyric sheets then, since trying to interpret the song by ear would sort of be like trying to decipher the lyrics of a Duran Duran song. (No offense to any fans out there I like 'em too)

And Sean, if you really want to sing along you can pick up some basic vocals in half a year easy. Just find an instructor. I tried it out and whilst I am not the best singer by the most generous stretch of anyone's imagination, I sound at least half decent. At least the neighbour no longer comes around to ask "who's torturing the cat?" when I sing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2005 6:39:17

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: CANTE (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

Kate

don´t complain: at least you can try to sing which is the most important thing. I can´t sing a note so I have to skulk in the corner and strum the guitar

un abrazo

Sean

ps Some day we shall have to meet! Granada is not so far away

I look forward to it but please dont ask me to sing

Kate

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Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2005 11:58:40

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

I have a feeling that a 50-50 balance between the guitar and cante would be my prefered structure for cante songs. But I will give the heavier stuff a go and see how I get on.

James,

You are dangerously close to being afflicted by the Flamenco bug. You'll know you've been bitten when you find yourself getting more enjoyment from cante CDs than from solo guitar. Don't think it can't happen to you. It's happened to many on this forum. One day you'll suddenly realize that you haven't listened to any solo CDs for quite some time. So, you put one in the CD player and before it's over you switch to a cante CD. As far as I know, there is no known cure for this affliction.

Regarding not understanding the lyrics: it isn't absolutely neccessary. I've met people who couldn't speak a word of Spanish who still enjoyed cante. I have no problem carrying on a conversation in Spanish, but I have a real problem understanding many Flamenco lyrics. But, as Kate said, so do many Spaniards. In fact, Manuel Agujetas once said something like - you shouldn't be able to understand everything a good cantaor sings. Of course, he's known for saying a lot of crazy things.

If you think about it, the same thing occurs with English rock music. Is there any English speaking person that could understand a word of what Stevie Nicks sang, for example? I sure couldn't. I've found the best way to learn is to get hold of the lyrics in print (either the Cd cover or downloaded from a website) and follow along while listening. Once you know what is being said and hear it again you'll wonder why you couldn't understand it in the first place.

I recently bought 2 cante CDs that I really like. "Gloria Bendita" by Luis El Zambo w/ Moraito on guitar and "Luna de Calabozo" by Diego Rubichi w/ Antonio Jero on guitar. Forget the "Flamenco Lite" stuff. Jump right in to the "heavier stuff". Try it, you'll like it. After all, would you rather hear "Long Tall Sally" sung by Little Richard or by Pat Boone? Estrella Morente is, without a doubt, the most beautiful cantaora in the history of Flamenco, but I'd rather listen to Fernanda de Utrera any day.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2005 6:45:07

veet

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

The two voices that most typify great cante for me are El Indio Gitano - a great cd accompanied by Gerardo Nuñez, and El Torta - best cd imo is Colores Morenos.

Big, rich, rajo voices both, full of juice and emotion.

Veet

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2005 19:16:52

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: CANTE (in reply to veet)

quote:

El Indio Gitano - a great cd accompanied by Gerardo Nuñez

Hey... is this an album where Nunez plays traditional stuff? I knew he could play traditional stuff too because he did actually play some at the concert I went to with Carmen Cortes dancing.

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2005 19:34:03

Guest

RE: CANTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Well, traditional al Nuñez. But this is a great record and since El Indio has passed away it is a fitting memory of him and well worth having: great cante and great guitar.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2005 21:49:20