CANTE (Full Version)

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JBASHORUN -> CANTE (Oct. 24 2005 17:29:59)

Okay, so I've built up quite a few Flamenco CDs recently, and am enjoying most of them. The thing is that I have plenty of solo guitar CDs and hardly any cante stuff. This is mainly because I find cante quite hard to listen to as it is an acquired taste and often gets in the way of hearing the guitar parts.
However, apparently cante is a very important part of Flamenco, so I would like to buy a few CDs that feature cante. So far, I have only Estrella Morente's "My songs and a poem" album, and I recently bought the DVD of Vicente Amigo's "Cuidad De Las Ideas" (if that counts as cante?). I also plan to buy the hEMIsphere album that another member recommended.
If anyone can recommend some good CDs featuring cante and guitar I would be very grateful. But preferably something quite easy to listen to. Also I have no Camaron CDs, so if someone can recommend a good album featuring Camaron and Paco, or Camaron and Tomatito, I will check them out.


Thanks,


James



duende -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 24 2005 17:41:04)

Paco and camarón. "Arte y majestad" is a favorite.
[1970]cada vez que nos miramos
"nuestro Camarón" is great.
1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas



Escribano -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 24 2005 18:01:34)


  • Paris 1986-1987 - Camaron and Tomatito Live. Get the DVD as well - excellent choice
  • Capullo de Jerez - En Directo



Ron.M -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 24 2005 20:44:44)

quote:

1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas

...que brillan, como Luc(ife)ero....

That's defininitely one of my all-time favourite Albums.

Only, on my LP it's just called" El Camaron de la Isla con el colaboracion de Paco de Lucia".

Gotta get a new needle for this gramophone of mine...[:D]

cheers

Ron



JBASHORUN -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 24 2005 21:30:09)

Thanks everyone- useful info here. I am looking into purchasing these albums even as we speak. As it happens I had already bought the "1971 Son tus ojos dos estrellas" album on Ebay and am waiting for it to arrive. It is also titled "El Camaron...", but according to flamenco-world they are the same album:


https://www.flamenco-world.com/tienda/shop.php?&vshopferca=f0a2c8f42a6728f70482b88d008e4f23&op_shop=show&id_prod=3824&id_cat=



Thanks,


James



Florian -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 1:41:24)

Curo Pinana, Miguel Poveda, Guadiana, Montse Cortes are quite easy to listen to.

My hole time favourite is Arcangel tho, i dont know how easy it is to listen to or not tho, you have to get used to his style.



duende -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 5:32:06)

Also try Fosforito with Paco de lucia Vol 1-3. Fosforito´s voice is not as welcoming as Camarón but he sings very good.
Pacos guitar is also a perfect book on HOW to accompany cante.



Jon Boyes -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 8:22:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
and I recently bought the DVD of Vicente Amigo's "Cuidad De Las Ideas" (if that counts as cante?).


...hmmm well, probably not. IMO the big difference here is that the cante is really just there to supplement the guitar, rather than the other way around. On most tracks the vocals are just embellishments. This is Vicente's solo stuff, after all. For flamenco this is pretty left field stuff, far too jazzy and smooth for many tastes. (BTW, I still think Vicente is one of the best guitarists out there and I think that DVD is great).

Going back to your question, you'll see that you can't go far with Camaron. I like Potito's stuff too, who is kind of thought as 'school of Camaron' if you know what I mean.

Have you got Saura's flamenco film, James? Superb mix of cante, baile and toque there, old and new. Its a nice way to sample stuff. Check out Potito accompanied by Tomatito por buleria, for example (wow). If you are familiar with the palo Tarantas, check out the amazing Carmen Linares - don't get put off by those microtones, they grow on you [:)] [...have a chuckle at cortes who simply HAS to dance with his shirt off [:D]]

I have to admit I find some of the 'earthy' cante harder to listen too - like the two guys who do the martinete (sp?). The opening bulerias scared crap out of me when I first saw it, now it hits the spot [;)]



Crows -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 9:23:34)

Could I throw one in here too?

Santiago Donday and Paco Cepero - Morrongo.
Nice traditional playing and crushed velvet cante!

I'm with the other suggestions as well. I found the Saura film fascinating, a great 'summary' if you like. Paco and Fosforito, Paco and Camaron....... classic guitar/cante.

All the best, Andy.



el ted -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 9:40:26)

If you find cante difficult to listen too (I'm sure we all did initially) could I suggest trying out female singers like Amalia Jandra? A lot of them don't belt it out as ferociously as most of the men.



JBASHORUN -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 9:47:03)

quote:

Have you got Saura's flamenco film, James?


No, not yet. But I will order it on DVD and check it out.

Interestingly you said that "Cuidad" was not really cante because the singing just supplements the guitar as opposed to the guitar just being there to supplement the singing. I have a feeling that a 50-50 balance between the guitar and cante would be my prefered structure for cante songs. But I will give the heavier stuff a go and see how I get on.


Thanks for all the receommendations everyone- hopefully I will develop a better appreciation for cante after listening to some of this stuff.



Thanks,


James



JBASHORUN -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 9:51:09)

quote:

could I suggest trying out female singers like Amalia Jandra?



Ofcourse. But I can't seem to find anything listed after searching her name at Flamenco world. What CDs/DVDs is she on?


Thanks,


James



el ted -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 12:41:08)

I will have a look at home and let you know. I have some lovely stuff by her and other- dare I say - "lighter" female singers.



el ted -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 13:03:43)

Found it!!! It's on Nimbus records called "Cante Adaluz" catalogue number NI3554.

Go to NImbus records at www.wyastone.co.uk then go into the 'world music' section. They have a whole range of GOOD flamenco recordings, usually live, from juregas etc. I have most of this collection, and it includes all the greats ,Chano Lobato, Paco Del Gastor etc.

A good place to start I reckon.



JBASHORUN -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 14:36:57)

Cheers El Ted, there's quite a good selection of Flamenco CDs there, with some helpful audio clips:

http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/5554_1.ram


It all seems quite authentic too. I will certainly order a couple of them.


Thanks,


James



Ryan002 -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 14:58:52)

What I would like to know is if anyone else has problems making out the lyrics! Male singers are (in a nice way) growling the song and sometimes I can't make out entire verses.



Florian -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 15:03:03)

I know !! I try but i never can , as if they singing in another language or something. [:D]



Florian -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 15:05:45)

Ofcourse if i had learned more than just all the swear words in Spanish might have helped.



Kate -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 17:03:43)

Don't worry you are not the only one. It frustrated the hell out of me when I first came to Spain but then I was told that many Spanish people have difficulty understanding cante. I used to make the words up myself which is how come I sang ' Como quejaba' as 'Como que haba'. They often sing words in Calo as well as making dimunitives from every other word and saying pa' for para. For instance 'las fatiguillas son pa’ los presos' You wont find fatiguillas in the Oxford dictionary but it is a derivative of fatiga meaning tired and weary.

While I am here will just say that I really admire the female singers Esperanza Fernandez, La Macanita and Remedios Amaya.

Kate



Escribano -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 17:06:04)

quote:

saying pa' for para

Across the pond too, e.g. "Samba Pa Ti" - Santana

I like the dropping of the "d" around here as in "estoy cansao" and "mi mario" Makes things so much harder for me[:D]



Escribano -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 17:11:40)

quote:

While I am here will just say that I really admire the female singers Esperanza Fernandez, La Macanita and Remedios Amaya


and let's not forget Lole, a class act.



Ricardo -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 17:26:15)

The movie "Flamenco" has a nice blend of different singers, dancers and guitarists. Paquera kicks it off and blows you away. Getting an entire album of the wrong singer can be a big turn off. The first singer I heard and fell in love with and still love to this day is Maria Vargas. Tons of feeling and power.

Ricardo



Guest -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 21:18:54)

quote:

and let's not forget Lole, a class act.


and La Susi, La Perla de Cadiz, Adela la Chaqueta y La Sallago: joder, what great singers we have ( or have had).

Sean



Guest -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 25 2005 21:24:59)

Kate

don´t complain: at least you can try to sing which is the most important thing. I can´t sing a note so I have to skulk in the corner and strum the guitar[:(]

un abrazo

Sean

ps Some day we shall have to meet! Granada is not so far away



Ryan002 -> RE: CANTE (Oct. 26 2005 6:39:17)

Great. My Spanish is already so bad that it takes me 3 seconds or so to process a phrase. I guess I'm stuck with lyric sheets then, since trying to interpret the song by ear would sort of be like trying to decipher the lyrics of a Duran Duran song. (No offense to any fans out there I like 'em too)

And Sean, if you really want to sing along you can pick up some basic vocals in half a year easy. Just find an instructor. I tried it out and whilst I am not the best singer by the most generous stretch of anyone's imagination, I sound at least half decent. At least the neighbour no longer comes around to ask "who's torturing the cat?" when I sing. [&:]



Kate -> RE: CANTE (Nov. 2 2005 11:58:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

Kate

don´t complain: at least you can try to sing which is the most important thing. I can´t sing a note so I have to skulk in the corner and strum the guitar[:(]

un abrazo

Sean

ps Some day we shall have to meet! Granada is not so far away


I look forward to it but please dont ask me to sing
[;)]

Kate



Phil -> RE: CANTE (Nov. 4 2005 6:45:07)

quote:

I have a feeling that a 50-50 balance between the guitar and cante would be my prefered structure for cante songs. But I will give the heavier stuff a go and see how I get on.


James,

You are dangerously close to being afflicted by the Flamenco bug. You'll know you've been bitten when you find yourself getting more enjoyment from cante CDs than from solo guitar. Don't think it can't happen to you. It's happened to many on this forum. One day you'll suddenly realize that you haven't listened to any solo CDs for quite some time. So, you put one in the CD player and before it's over you switch to a cante CD. As far as I know, there is no known cure for this affliction.

Regarding not understanding the lyrics: it isn't absolutely neccessary. I've met people who couldn't speak a word of Spanish who still enjoyed cante. I have no problem carrying on a conversation in Spanish, but I have a real problem understanding many Flamenco lyrics. But, as Kate said, so do many Spaniards. In fact, Manuel Agujetas once said something like - you shouldn't be able to understand everything a good cantaor sings. Of course, he's known for saying a lot of crazy things.

If you think about it, the same thing occurs with English rock music. Is there any English speaking person that could understand a word of what Stevie Nicks sang, for example? I sure couldn't. I've found the best way to learn is to get hold of the lyrics in print (either the Cd cover or downloaded from a website) and follow along while listening. Once you know what is being said and hear it again you'll wonder why you couldn't understand it in the first place.

I recently bought 2 cante CDs that I really like. "Gloria Bendita" by Luis El Zambo w/ Moraito on guitar and "Luna de Calabozo" by Diego Rubichi w/ Antonio Jero on guitar. Forget the "Flamenco Lite" stuff. Jump right in to the "heavier stuff". Try it, you'll like it. After all, would you rather hear "Long Tall Sally" sung by Little Richard or by Pat Boone? Estrella Morente is, without a doubt, the most beautiful cantaora in the history of Flamenco, but I'd rather listen to Fernanda de Utrera any day.

Phil



veet -> RE: CANTE (Nov. 7 2005 19:16:52)

The two voices that most typify great cante for me are El Indio Gitano - a great cd accompanied by Gerardo Nuñez, and El Torta - best cd imo is Colores Morenos.

Big, rich, rajo voices both, full of juice and emotion.

Veet



JBASHORUN -> RE: CANTE (Nov. 7 2005 19:34:03)

quote:

El Indio Gitano - a great cd accompanied by Gerardo Nuñez


Hey... is this an album where Nunez plays traditional stuff? I knew he could play traditional stuff too because he did actually play some at the concert I went to with Carmen Cortes dancing.


James



Guest -> RE: CANTE (Nov. 7 2005 21:49:20)

Well, traditional al Nuñez. But this is a great record and since El Indio has passed away it is a fitting memory of him and well worth having: great cante and great guitar.

Sean



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