Changing fretboard on a neck with lacquer

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

Changing fretboard on a neck with la...

I have a guitar with a neck that has orange lacquer/varnish(I still don't know the difference

) on it and I would like to replace the fretboard on it at some point. The thing is that when shaving the fretboard to the size of the neck one has to remove lacquer off the neck also, meaning there will be mix of natural and orange colored spanish cedar on the neck. I know this is cosmetical but is there any way to minimize the loss of original lacquer or is it possible to somehow re-color the part where will be no lacquer? Is there such thing as orange shellac for example? thanks

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 19:19:27

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

Ebony is black. Why dont you just remove the varnish from the fretboard before taking the fretboard off?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 19:24:47

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Ebony is black. Why dont you just remove the varnish from the fretboard before taking the fretboard off?

I mean after you glue the fretboard onto the neck, you have to shave excess ebony, and that way I have no idea how to save the lacquer of the neck(spanish cedar)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 19:32:53

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

Cant you use the old freboard as a template to cut the new one?

Any final adjustment could be made with the same care as you would shave the varnish from the fretboard before removing it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 19:49:00

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Cant you use the old freboard as a template to cut the new one?

Any final adjustment could be made with the same care as you would shave the varnish from the fretboard before removing it.

I'm not sure if it's possible to make it perfectly fitting.

I haven't thought of it yet, before removing the original fretboard, what is the best way to remove the fretboard lacquer? I have thought about cutting a line between the neck and fretboard with scapel, I'm not so sure it will work.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 20:37:18

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

I have a guitar with a neck that has orange lacquer/varnish(I still don't know the difference ) on it and I would like to replace the fretboard on it at some point.

Why do you want to replace the fingerboard?

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2013 23:07:06

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

First of all, yes there is orange shellac--in fact, it may be the most common kind.

Second, before you remove the fingerboard--I have done it by heating it with a clothes iron for a long time, like 45 minutes--you could score along the joint between it and the neck with a knife--that is, cut through the finish so you won't tear the finish jaggedly onto the neck. Then before applying the new fingerboard you could place masking tape along that joint on the neck side to protect the neck finish while you glue, and sand the edge of, the fingerboard.

Finally, shellac blends seamlessly with many finishes and will probably do the trick for you on that fingerboard edge.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 1:16:52

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks.

How about the lacquer of the top, will it get damaged from the heat?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 9:58:05

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Why do you want to replace the fingerboard?

Because of the scale, it's 667mm

and BTW I am not doing it by myself but with a luthier

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 10:03:40

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

What scale length are to trying achieve?

I would think, or at least hope, that the "luthier" you're working with would have some suggestions as to how to remove and replace the fingerboard as cleanly as possible..
You do realize that, among other things, you'll also have to move or somehow modify the bridge to change the saddle position. Si?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 13:54:05

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Because of the scale, it's 667mm

and BTW I am not doing it by myself but with a luthier

If you're going to a shorter scale there's a lot more to consider than the finish. Like repositioning the bridge, figuring out how to deal with the space at the nut end of the fingerboard, and getting the head angle and slots adjusted so the strings attach to the rollers correctly (not to mention the weird effect at the sound hole). All of this can be done but the result will never be cosmetically pleasing. Sometimes it's easier and cheaper to sell this guitar and buy a new one that's built with a scale you like.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 14:02:16

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to jshelton5040)

actually it used to be 660 and we go back to 660 from 667 so no problem on that.

The biggest issue now is to make it look clean. Any more tips are welcome.

About heating the fingerboard, is it really 45 minutes for the whole fretboard?
I am worried a bit about the lacquer of the top, if it gets damaged from the heat.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 14:15:46

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

No problem??? Are you familiar with the tern "intonation"?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 14:18:25

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

No problem??? Are you familiar with the tern "intonation"?

please spare your jokes. I'm sure it will be fine as 660 is original lenght. Moving the saddle and nut are obvious procedures.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 14:51:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

How are you going to move the saddle?

How many times has that bridge been glued already?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 14:53:24

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

How are you going to move the saddle?

How many times has that bridge been glued already?

The bridge was moved back by sawing a new slot in the bridge. Now it has to be filled and sawed at original position. But currently I am only worried about the lacquer.

Is there a chance that the heat might damage the lacquer on the neck or on the top?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2013 15:28:12

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

The time will depend on the kind of glue that was used and the thickness of the fingerboard. In my case it was aliphatic resin (yellow carpenter's) glue. I'm sure it would be easier with hide glue. The clothes iron was approximately the width of the fingerboard and I moved it back and forth the whole time and there was no problem with any other part getting heated.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2013 13:14:26

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I'm just wondering, as the lacquer on the top is some kind of poly and I have read that some use heat guns to remove poly finishes...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2013 18:06:53

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

Ya poly delaminates off the top with heat.
There is a heat sink material welders use, that may work; it stops thin body panels from warping while welding.

I can't picture someone moving the saddle back 3.5mm without trashing the bridge, or why they would have done that 667 conversion in the first place.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2013 22:49:17

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to Sean)

quote:

or why they would have done that 667 conversion in the first place.

Beats me...

There was however space in the bridge to facilitate the scale. Will see how to roll about the top part, maybe it has to be shaved off carefully.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 8:39:35

Ricardo

Posts: 14844
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

No problem??? Are you familiar with the tern "intonation"?

please spare your jokes. I'm sure it will be fine as 660 is original lenght. Moving the saddle and nut are obvious procedures.

Don't forget to take off the strings and frets!!

Obviously you acquired the guitar already modified (oddly) and want to restore it to original size? I would think the entire bridge needs to move or had been moved, not just saddle. Odd.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 16:03:36

Morante

Posts: 2184
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to tele)

Why not just play it as it is?. If you accompany a singer, especially a woman por malagueñas, the extra space could be very useful.

The best Conde I ever played (offered for 4000) euros was 670mm. I would have bought it without qualms, though I have small hands, but I didnt need another flamenco guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 16:16:36

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Changing fretboard on a neck wit... (in reply to Morante)

Well it's almost done now and there were no issues. The original bridge had a kind of flat surface at the point where the bridge saddle is, and there was seemingly space to move it 3.5mm back(other 3.5 at the nut). Now it's just replaced at original position by filling the old slot and sawing a new one at original location. As for lacquer it went off nicely with a blade, however will have to be careful when sanding the fretboard side, I will use couple layers of tape and go slow.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 17:35:34