RE: Felipe Conde

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RE: Felipe Conde

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tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I put forth now that despite the accusations, ALL A MODEL Condes are built by hand by one of the two brothers. All media lunas produced in valencia are destined for one of the other two shops either Atocha, or Gravina (and since before the split) the student B models for the Felipe V address. that is STILL a lot of condes of course, but now please prove me wrong somebody. Show me a Felipe V addressed A model media luna that was surely constructed in Valencia. Waiting.

ricardo

There are so many A25's and 26's out there it is incredible. The sheer numbers don't break down to one person IMO without help. Maybe one of the brothers directly oversees the building of each A model? Supervisor, final setup, QA type of thing but other artisans are directly involved. If you had 4 or 5 guys building each one by hand in a luthier group type of environment I could see getting near 100 or so A models out the door each year.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 15:40:40

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

The necks are all pre-craved for them, bridges probably also pre-made by someone else, slotted fingerboards too; why not. When assembled they send them out for finish, probably by the same people who make their lower models.
A luthier could crank out a lot of guitars when all the time consuming things are done by someone else.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 16:28:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyingsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I put forth now that despite the accusations, ALL A MODEL Condes are built by hand by one of the two brothers. All media lunas produced in valencia are destined for one of the other two shops either Atocha, or Gravina (and since before the split) the student B models for the Felipe V address. that is STILL a lot of condes of course, but now please prove me wrong somebody. Show me a Felipe V addressed A model media luna that was surely constructed in Valencia. Waiting.

ricardo

There are so many A25's and 26's out there it is incredible. The sheer numbers don't break down to one person IMO without help. Maybe one of the brothers directly oversees the building of each A model? Supervisor, final setup, QA type of thing but other artisans are directly involved. If you had 4 or 5 guys building each one by hand in a luthier group type of environment I could see getting near 100 or so A models out the door each year.

In an interview these questions were addressed. I will quote a couple things from the interview in a flamenco magazine from 1999.

Are two of you speciallised in making certain parts of the guitar?
"No, every guitars is a team work, we hand it on to one another. One does a part and then passes it on to the other, there are no fixed asignments between the two of us".

(after admiting machines are used for some parts of the build such as sawing...)
How much time does the making of a guitar take?
"It depends on the model. If it's an A-model, three months, if it's a special guitar it may take even longer."

Just the two of you build guitars or do you have assistants?
" Yes, we have peole who help us otherwise it is impossible. Fo the B-models for example".
"we don't do the varnishing ourselves. Well, sometimes we do the shellac ourselves, but we don't touch the synthetic varnish".

so you send it to a varnisher?
"NO, no, we have our own employee who is specialised in doing all the varnishing".

How many do you build in one year?
" Guitars built by ourselves 4-5 a month, that makes about 60 A models a year. THese are the ones that carry our signatures and our seal."

"we are building various guitars simultaneously, we don't work only on one guitar at th etime, we work on one or two at the same time, if one has to dry you work on another."

you speak of guitars that carryin your signature and seal. Does that mean there is another type of guitar?
"Yes, we're speaking of the B and C models which we do not build ourselves. They are made by people that work for us. Only the guitars that carry our signatures are made completely by ourselves."

...."these are also conde guitars but they are not made personally by ourselves. THe people who build them are trained personally by us and they build them according to our instructions.".

THen you have another workshop here in madrid?
"yes, we have nother here in Madrid and then there's a third outside Madrid. Bu the master guitars are built here in this shop".
------------------------------------------

Ok, so, they are flat out LYING...or they are not.

We can argue and speculate. Accusing someone of lying is serious and one would think the burden of proof lies on the accuser. I have seen video and photos of them building but some claim they are FAKING IT. I think the real money to made is in the factory B models. Confusing comes from the fact other media lunas (look LIKE A models) are built in same fashion for the other two conde houses, but are different quality AND PRICE. But if they (FElipe V guys now split up) don't build the A models either then everyone gets all bent out of shape about it. I like the guitars (A models) I have played and do find them a cut above the Valencia guitars they are perported to actually be. They seem to be better than the Atocha and Gravina equivalant looking versions. I always say it should be easy to prove this thing with a visit to Valencia and a cel phone camera but instead people just like to talk up the subject.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 17:03:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

I also heard that these conde banditos buy the tuners and strings from elsewhere and don't make them theirselves. :D

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 17:14:41

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

I think they do all the important work that makes a guitar sound and play the way it does. The grunt work isn't done by them personally, and doesn't have to be to get an excellent guitar.
I've seen shop pictures that show a bunch of profiled necks waiting to be used. I have never met an independent luthier that profiles the whole neck before fitting the fretboard, this tells me it was made on a duplicarver in the past, and CNC machine today.
I don't consider it dishonest or lying, they're just keeping up with demand.
It still takes the chef to make the recipe turn out.

CNC equipment has come down in cost, you can now find independent guys with setups in their basements that carve their necks, bridges, slots their fingerboards, and cuts their inlays.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 20:06:20

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

If Im not wrong, mariano and felipe specifically started making guitars in their shops instead of selling the ones from felipe V which are speculated to be made in valencia. No wonder they cost 8-10 grands, at least the felipe ones.

But the labels of marianos and felipes are completely different from the felipe v label, so theres no point in discussing A26 and A25 models which are felipe v models.

That flamenco magazine interview is from year 1999, Im sure many things have changed and the brothers dont work at felipe v any longer it seems, but instead in their own shops.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 13:30:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tele)

quote:

That flamenco magazine interview is from year 1999, Im sure many things have changed and the brothers dont work at felipe v any longer it seems, but instead in their own shops.

Point is if they lied THEN they could be lying NOW. Jury still out for me until I try a Felipe or Mariano. I showed them my guitar back in 2003 or so and they claim "yes" when I asked if they actually built it or not. He spent a moment checking it out and said I kept it in good shape

.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 16:26:55

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I showed them my guitar back in 2003 or so and they claim "yes" when I asked if they actually built it or not.

Just to clarify: Are you inclined to believe them? Just curious. I have no horse in this race.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2013 9:48:17

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to machopicasso)

I think its very likely that Felipe and Mariano built a25 and a26's before they started their own shops, or at least did most of the work on the guitars.
But anyway it doesn't matter so much as to who has built the guitar as long as it sounds good. We are guitarists and not wine tasters.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2013 16:02:46

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

That´s right.

But it could matter to folks who can´t check guitars first / need to order from somewhere. Those will certainly appreciate to see some reviews from fellas like Ricardo in the future to learn who of the brothers could rather have been responsible / be in charge for the typical characteristics like flappy soundboards that many of us like.

Not that it would guarantee receiving of a specimen as desired, but some consistency in production provided the knowing who builds what may increase chances for remote buyers to get what they envision.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2013 17:14:46

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Arash)

Same enviroment and recording, just for fun ;)

A 2010 Felipe

1975

1974

2006 Negra

2012 Mariano (different player, i think thats the owner of the shop)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2013 14:42:46

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

Very interesting to compare these guitars. As you say, it is great to have the same player and the same room and we assume the same recording gear.

If I were to place these in order in terms of sound I would probably go with:

1. !975 Best all around balance of force and sweetness

2. 2010 Very nice projection, and nice sweet sound

3. 1974 This one sounds like it lacks punch, perhaps just the piece itself?

4. 2006 This one sounds dull to my ears. Again all is subjective

I leave out the last one because it is a different player and different room sound (more reverb in there).

I really hope that others chime in with their opinions. Well, I guess there is no excuse now; I must get back to work!

_____________________________

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2013 17:02:47

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

I like the Felipe and the 1975 Conde equally. The 1974 sounds like it has a cedar top even though its spruce of course. It sounds a little warmer but good. I think its also longer scale than the 75.
And i think the 2006 Negra is good too, its a Negra so the sound is different.

If someone would force me to chose one and only one, and all had the same playability, same price and the same resale value

, i would take the Felipe

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2013 18:08:55

Ricardo

Posts: 14841
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Arash)

I like 1974....but they all pretty much the same thing.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2013 18:48:33

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to tri7/5)

I don't want to open this whole can of worms again with litigation and longstanding members asking for their accounts to be cancelled, but does anyone else think that the new Mariano Conde labels ironically look like a huge hand written label that has been glued on top of another? Again, I emphasize that it is ironic given that many people believe that Conde allegedly buys guitars from lord knows where and just glues their own labels inside.

These Mariano labels look very, umm homemade I guess I would say.

This handwritten look combined with the signature on top of the soundhole seem to show a need to communicate that these guitars are hand made and by Mariano himself.

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_____________________________

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2013 17:30:32

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

.but they all pretty much the same thing.

For myself this is so in that they all sound good in their own way.

_____________________________

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 17 2013 17:38:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Felipe Conde (in reply to Harry)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry

I don't want to open this whole can of worms again with litigation and longstanding members asking for their accounts to be cancelled, but does anyone else think that the new Mariano Conde labels ironically look like a huge hand written label that has been glued on top of another? Again, I emphasize that it is ironic given that many people believe that Conde allegedly buys guitars from lord knows where and just glues their own labels inside.

These Mariano labels look very, umm homemade I guess I would say. This handwritten look combined with the signature on top of the soundhole seem to show a need to communicate that these guitars are hand made and by Mariano himself.