Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
It is indeed that time of the month and my bull$hit meter went way into the red in RMS mode. Here is the way to count while learning tremolos that avoid resolving in a minor. Thanks Ramzi for posting that by the way, laughing really helps the cramps and after watching that video, this amazing gem of pedagogic skill popped up in the side bar.
_____________________________
Flamenco Guitar is a percussion instrument. Start acting like percussionists.
Are you a mexican ribnibbler who immigrated to kazakhstan
thats it. they can't count here in Kazakhstan anyway so toddK's method is popular here. my mexican heritage is hard to let go of so I count especially on heavy flow days. good news... the goat is beginning to get the compás and I can get my gig back soon. The goat can't count either.
_____________________________
Flamenco Guitar is a percussion instrument. Start acting like percussionists.
Why is he using the word Hoppopotumus to describe a two lazy quavers and a triplet ?
In flamenco I prefer A BRACA DABRA as there is a gluttal stop after the a and it is easy to place the accent on the second and fourth quintuplet. Try saying it guys, it rolls across the whole mouth and pallete quite satisfyingly. It also throws the accent away from the a finger which can often be strident.
Both hippopotamus and geophysical suggest 2+3. But I like A BRACA DABRA for flamenco...... it's magic. Check it out (but use a metronome set fast on fives before you learn an uneven rhythm)
In actual fact there are a few GREAT systems of aural rhythmic communication out there. In Ireland and Scotland it is called diddling, it is well straightforward, just sing accurately what you intend to play before then learning it on your instrument. Scotch fiddlers have terrific recall, two hundred tunes a night unrehearsed is not unusual.
More well known now (thanks to some English dude John something who played with Paco) is Konokol. All ethnic percussion traditions have something. What lends them power is consistency and tradition.
Mnemonics are good, numbers are good, it's all good when it is right (unlike when hippopotumus is prounced like dips#it tripilet). Nothing is nessecary and the efficacy of one does not negate the validity of another.
Anyway, seems like I shouldn't have cautioned Todd quite so politely, that doesn't seem to provoke much thought.
With flamenco being such a percussive art form, I do believe some form of time keeping and cognitive organization advisable if one is going to get their head around it. With so few outside of Spain ever actually becoming proficient in expressing themselves in this relatively simple rhythm, perhaps it is the approach taken by the majority that lead to this rampant failure. Odds are against us that just can't seem to get it. But why? 4 sets of 3, 6 sets of 2, 12 sets of 1... maybe we admire it too much and our admiration intimidates us to the point where it impairs our ability to keep track of such simplicity as our fingers dance around the fretboard. With all of these books, websites, YouTube videos and information overflowing we should be able to do anything in this modern age. We are just one step away from placing a USB cable in our heads to download the ability to do such things. Is it that playing bulerias would prove the race towards transhumanism a race towards epic failure? Are we doomed to play only libre material when it is clearly the infectious rhythm of this particular celebration of humanity that is the source of our inspiration? One guy says count, one guy say don't, one guy says enchilada/hippopotamus, one guy says abracadabra. Lets see... hmm, do I want to be like Dr. Professor, ToddK, The Big Lebowski, Ricardo or god forbid my own self. Is Flamenco watching me like some twisted version of "The Truman Show," waiting for me to either succeed or more likely fail for the entertainment of those here on the internet's foremost repository of flamenco experts? Sign me up, I am going to throw my hat in the ring. Seriously, "even a caveman can do it."
I wonder what it is that screws us up so bad. Maybe it is something about the art form itself only opening the door for a chosen few. A genetic defect or bad code in the matrix program?
I dont share your point of view george, I find many "foreigners"(non andalucians) to have good grasp of the compas, but the other thing is that only andalucians play like andalucians...
It's a bit like only japanese sumo like japanese. It doesnt mean foreign sumo men are bad, they are just not alike. Originals are always originals.
you are not up to date. best are mongolians now, and there would be more of them, if japan wouldn't ban and place limits because of fear of losing national identity
I wonder what it is that screws us up so bad. Maybe it is something about the art form itself only opening the door for a chosen few. A genetic defect or bad code in the matrix program?
But aren't all human endeavours elitist - there will always be a chosen few who can really excel in any given area ?
As for the rest who try, do they really fail ? Isn't the journey itself the destination, the fabulous tiny grains of insight that get thrown at us occasionally, that keep us inspired ?
Image the miserable world where everybody could do everything, with effectively nothing to distinguish us from each other.
Evolution wouldn't allow such a state of affairs, and we wouldn't want it either.
The struggle IS the game.. no defects, or bad code. The matrix is working perfectly :-)
I have to be honest, the main reason I like flamenco is the music so all this "Percussive Instrument" doesn't sit well with me, and I feel that this is almost offensive to the flamenco's as to them it is part of their identity and the guitar is a sidelined theme. That is one reason I respect Grisha so much, he just interprets a culture but doesn't try to impose his view of it, I love that modesty.
So... percussion isnt about music?
You can have all the scales under your fingers, melodies, arpeggios, etc etc but if you dont have rhythm, all that will be meaningless, specially in genres like flamenco. BTW, Iam not talking about the "oh yeah, lets make some beats on the guitar top" kind of crap, Iam telling you about the "melodic rhythms" you can make when you subdivide a beat that is oriented by harmony/chords (played or implied) falling in certain places.
sorry i think what I wrote was confusing, I meant that MY view is offensive to the flamencos. I agree with what Rui says, I guess I used the wrong example.
You really don't have to be a great guitarist to play bulerias well. But you do need solid rhythm. I had a teacher who told me you could play a great bulerias solo with two lousy falsetas if you had great rhythm. I understand that it's the music for you, but the rhythm is crucial. If you watch dance, or even better play for dance, even beginners, it will likely fall into place.
I've been around flamenco for going on three decades, and in all that time, only heard a few guys who didn't play for dance really swing por bulerias. It clearly can be done by really good musicians, but the time tested way to develop basic solid compas is to play for dance or play with people who have it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Aretium
I should never have started this thread hahaha. I asked a simple question now I am picking up pieces of my brain from my monitor.
I guess I will have to find a way that suits me. Seeing as I am not a great guitarist, maybe bulerias is beyond me, spend more time on other palos? I think I will work on it a little each weak, strengthening my compas little by little.
I have to be honest, the main reason I like flamenco is the music so all this "Percussive Instrument" doesn't sit well with me, and I feel that this is almost offensive to the flamenco's as to them it is part of their identity and the guitar is a sidelined theme. That is one reason I respect Grisha so much, he just interprets a culture but doesn't try to impose his view of it, I love that modesty.
you always more or less start like this. you like this or that part. you hate this or that part. then you like more parts, then you like it all. then you start to understand whats most important, etc. etc. etc... its a journey and his journey has just started. his view will change, as all views here changed eventually.
oook, what i wrote was not what i meant so I deleted it, for those who didnt read it ------>BLAAAAAAAAH
I have just been playing with a flamenco metronome at 100bpm , i am having trouble just with basics like fitting notes within the compas (8th 16th notes etc). So a long way yet to even begin.
lads less of the piss taking, i mean it. c'mon that book on flamenco has people counting with the word "morcilla" (black pudding) in spanish to count por siguiriyas. people use all sorts of words to count out musical phrases.
Printable Version
...nibbles to his friends. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread