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What's the best way to remember falsetas?   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

What's the best way to remember fals... 
Getting within whispering distance of 80; I'm finding it increasingly hard to remember some falsetas, if I don't play them pretty regularly.

For example; one week I might play exclusively Tarantas, and maybe Granadinas. Then if I try to switch to Seguiriyas, I find I cant remember exactly how to finger some falsetas that I played just a few weeks ago? I can remember the sound, but not the fingering, positions, etc. So sometimes I have to go back in my files and try to find the original source where I learned it.; (tab, video, whatever?).

I was wondering if this might be a common problem, and how do other players remember all their falsetas?

And further, maybe I should try video-recording all my stuff to have everything on file? The problem with that is that I frequently change the way I play certain phrases over a period of time: i.e. the old Montoya Soleares falseta I played a few years ago has a few added notes in more recent times?

I guess I could TAB out all the stuff, but (A) I don't know how to do that; and (B) it would be a hell of a pain, and very time-consuming.

Any thoughts. . . ?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:05:28
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

one week I might play exclusively Tarantas


You can't go around playing just one palo for a week. You need to play everything you know every day, or as often as possible. That way you memorize falsetas without even trying.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:37:44
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
You're almost twenty years ahead of me, but I find I have the same problems.
A couple of observations:
Falsetas I learned >20 years ago come back (to mind and fingers) much more easily.
Falsetas I learn with a teacher seem to be easier to memorize.
Falsetas I learn from tabs/notes are the hardest to remember ... but a glance at the scores helps immediately.

This all fits well with newest memory-research.
Ideal learning conditions combine motor and cognitive learning with an optimal level of emotional "excitement" (aka as "stress"). And of course... the younger you are, the easier...



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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:44:36
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
If you associate what you hear & play with music theory instead of fingerings, things might get much easier.

If Iam playing something from a tab (like a robot) without making a musical theory mental map, I find that I forget a measure as soon as Ive played it. If I print it in my mind with scale degrees, underlying chord, etc, everything sticks much faster with a much more useful musical meaning and without having to remember any fingerings.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:47:03
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

If you associate what you hear & play with music theory instead of fingerings, things might get much easier.

If Iam playing something from a tab (like a robot) without making a musical theory mental map, I find that I forget a measure as soon as Ive played it. If I print it in my mind with scale degrees, underlying chord, etc, everything sticks much faster with a much more useful musical meaning and without having to remember any fingerings.


Plus one.

It is much easier to remember sentences and paragraphs than letters and spaces. Nothing too fancy though, just stuff like 'this is an A chord', 'this is that scale that goes with and A chord' etc

Also make sure you can play through it in your head away from the instrument. This will mean really really REALLY being able to slow it down in your head.

Third put it on an mp3 player on repeat and listen to it till your head is about to explode.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:52:31
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
quote:

If I print it in my mind with scale degrees, underlying chord, etc, everything sticks much faster with a much more useful musical meaning and without having to remember any fingerings.


Sorry Rui. Wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid.

Relating falsetas to musical theory might work fine for you. But for me I can only rely on ear and finger memory.

I might use musical theory occasionally to learn a classical piece; but once my feeble brain and my fingers have it; then the musical theory goes out the window!

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 14:55:02
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
I find only way to memorize is just to play the falsetas initially often enough until it gets into your system and then you can play it after a years break quite easily

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:09:51
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
Dementia is a primary worry in advanced age and playing a musical instrument or singing is recommended to exercise the brain. I find I remember chord shapes quite easily and then the individual notes fall into place. I never bothered with theory as it bored me. I don't know if that would help with falsetas. I always thought they were improvised.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:40:13
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
I’ve found the method recommended by David Russell very helpful: learn the piece backwards.

Not literally the last note, then the previous note, of course; but play the last phrase, then the previous phrase and the last phrase, and so forth.

That way you always know what comes next.

Works for me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:44:41
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to aeolus) 
quote:

I don't know if that would help with falsetas. I always thought they were improvised.


I thought so for a long time, as well: but according to Lucía’s own account, apparently not, even for someone at his level. Hence his panic at being expected to improvise alongside McLaughlin & DiMeola.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:47:10
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to aeolus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

Dementia is a primary worry in advanced age and playing a musical instrument or singing is recommended to exercise the brain. I find I remember chord shapes quite easily and then the individual notes fall into place. I never bothered with theory as it bored me. I don't know if that would help with falsetas. I always thought they were improvised.


FINALLY something I can agree with !!!!!!!

Except,remembering chord shapes and letting the 'individual notes fall into place' has always and ever will be the way jazz players (the kind of jazzers who can acutally play standards anyway ) look at theory. And probably lots of other people who think they don't know theory do something similar.

Theory for a musician is just whatever it takes to help you out. Just pick up the stuff you need, it is sheer bloody mindedness not to.

A good three chord trick is a sign of a good grasp of theory (well as long as you can do it in a few keys). It is powerful mojo you know, no guitarist should leave the house without a few three and four chord tricks up their sleeve.

Just because someone claims they don't use theory doesn't mean you have to believe them.

I've met lots of guys with terrific music theory that have never read a note , mostly Sinti Gypsies.

D
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:52:46
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
From Johannes Moller:
It is also good to play each note more than once, I try to make it into a habit of practicing all sections repeating each note three times at least once, and for the difficult passages more.

Haven't tried it yet.

http://www.classicalguitarreview.com/interview-with-gfa-winner-johannes-moller/1148/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:52:50
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Paul Magnussen) 
quote:

I thought so for a long time, as well: but according to Lucía’s own account, apparently not, even for someone at his level. Hence his panic at being expected to improvise alongside McLaughlin & DiMeola.


I dont think he is playing any falsetas when improvising with the trio, its just some scales up and down, pretty much what people usually do over rumba backings.


As for the idea that music theory is boring.. music theory can be whatever you want with any depth you want as long as it has a useful meaning to you.

If you want to thing of the A and Bb as blue and green, thats fine too.



edit: For those who think that the only useful theory is chord shapes, remember that a scale is nothing more than a big chord but its more useful if you think of it as a map that tells you what are the notes inbetween the ones that went with the chord shape you're holding to.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:53:46
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins


As for the idea that music theory is boring.. music theory can be whatever you want with any depth you want as long as it has a useful meaning to you.

If you want to thing of the A and Bb as blue and green, thats fine too.


Good grief, what's gotten into you all, I agree with this too.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 15:56:56
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to guitarbuddha) 
Look at the time of the posts, that explains it
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 16:00:07
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Paul Magnussen) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

I’ve found the method recommended by David Russell very helpful: learn the piece backwards.

Not literally the last note, then the previous note, of course; but play the last phrase, then the previous phrase and the last phrase, and so forth.

That way you always know what comes next.

Works for me.


All good stuff.

Another great idea start off a practice session playing only the tricky phrases to find out where that mistakes are. How often to you get to the end of a piece and ask yourself where the mistakes were and find out that you have no idea.
Always going back to the start is a really really REALLY bad habit, nothing ever gets fixed if you practice that way.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 16:00:45
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
quote:


remember that a scale is nothing more than a big chord


I think its more like a chord is a part of scale

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 17:26:30
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to tele) 
quote:

I think its more like a chord is a part of scale


Its whatever you want in whatever context you would like it, thats my point.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 17:35:45
 
FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Getting within whispering distance of 80; I'm finding it increasingly hard to remember some falsetas, if I don't play them pretty regularly.

I'm 21 and that happens to me too. I guess that happens with everyone.

The way I do it is to listen to the masters play the falsetas many, many, many times until I know them by heart. The more complex falsetas I listen really slowly so I can can get familiar with every little detail. I rarely forget or mess up while playing the falsetas I really like because I'm not thinking of fingerings or notes, I know by instinct how they should sound. On the other hand, if I learn a very simple falseta from a tablature, the next day I don't remember it.


quote:

Look at the time of the posts, that explains it

Rui, why aren't you drunk on a Sunday afternoon?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 18:21:48
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

if I don't play them pretty regularly.


talking about my self, playing the falseta regularly is the only way to memorize it.
when you learn it , play it more than once daily till its solid ... then once a day ... eventually once each week or 2 weeks

that should keep it under your hand

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 18:27:34
 
flyhere

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 19:39:31
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to flyhere) 
quote:

I sing the notes out loud, like I used to do at music school many years ago...


Interesting idea. If you're comfortable with the Tonic Sol Fa voice scale.

Unfortunately, I'm not that good with voice-related scales.

Too bad. My mother was a professional soprano, who sang in light opera (Gilbert and Sullivan, etc.) and could sing just about any note in written music and hit it right on.

Not me, I'm afraid. Even when I have the melody clear in my head, I sometimes find it hard to transfer it to the guitar fingerboard. Mainly, I think because of the possible positions. I used to find it much easier on the piano.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 21:31:36
 
flyhere

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 21:41:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
well, over the years I will say it is not good to memorize via fingering and repetition. Muscle memory, is not really good for music, especially if you are gonna perform a lot on stage. If you get stuck thinking about lunch or what someone said or what you saw on facebook earlier, then you can get lost quick and never recover. The best way to memorize is the same way we get more involved in music generally. Sing it. Sing the rhythm of the falseta or phrase or strumming pattern or entire piece if you want. Beable to sing the whole entire thing while walking or driving or doing dishes laundry or yardwork, etc and you will retain it. Now perhaps your fingers seem to foget but if you can sing it then you understand the music and your fingers will "find" it again pretty quick.

This little trick has saved my butt on stage dozens of times. It is infact a way to improvise through a forgotten section and not lose the beat. Every blue moon or so this happens and you create something brand new that you can try to keep doing in the future. More often it is just a save, and when you are good at it, singing in your mind a phrase, you can get away with very little rehearsal of your material if you perform a lot.


The second thing is more practical and is to simple make a little Iphone camera video of yourself. You can put it on youtube if you worry about storage space and make vid private for your eyes only. I have in fact been doing this for myself lately as practice time at home gets shorter. I can watch my vids and make a mental note of fingerings and rediscover the stuff when I have time.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2013 22:24:27
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

The second thing is more practical and is to simple make a little Iphone camera video of yourself.


Yes, I agree. This is what I had in mind.

I don't have an IPhone, but I do have a little ZOOM Q3 aud/vid recorder, that should work O.K.

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 12:48:25
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

I'm still working at it by doing scales, but wish I knew other ways.


There are a lot of methods but they all require reading standard notation. You might try playing what you do know in a higher position. I found this very effective. I recently came across a suggestion that one plays a note say starting with A and finding all the As up to the 12 fret. No need to go any higher. Don't know how effective that would be.
Years ago I read an article in the journal of Guitar Foundation of America by a woman who had Masters in piano and organ and when she took up guitar she was confounded by what she called a maze! She had worked out three strategies to learn the fingerboard but I thought they were more complicated than the problem.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 12:58:56
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to aeolus) 
This is the best book I have ever seen for learning to read music on guitar.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learning-Classic-Guitar-Part-2/dp/0871668556/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368450034&sr=1-6&keywords=aaron+shearer

His earlier books are vastly inferior and I do not recommend them. In this one it is clear that he has had a real hard think about what the problems that make reading music on the guitar difficult and has solved them.

This book won't be much help for flamenco I am afraid. But reading music is fun and this book makes learning that on the guitar much easier. I have read pretty much all of the methods and they all fall into the same traps. Shearer avoids them really cleverly.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 13:06:30
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

well, over the years I will say it is not good to memorize via fingering and repetition. Muscle memory, is not really good for music, especially if you are gonna perform a lot on stage. If you get stuck thinking about lunch or what someone said or what you saw on facebook earlier, then you can get lost quick and never recover. The best way to memorize is the same way we get more involved in music generally. Sing it. Sing the rhythm of the falseta or phrase or strumming pattern or entire piece if you want. Beable to sing the whole entire thing while walking or driving or doing dishes laundry or yardwork, etc and you will retain it. Now perhaps your fingers seem to foget but if you can sing it then you understand the music and your fingers will "find" it again pretty quick.

This little trick has saved my butt on stage dozens of times. It is infact a way to improvise through a forgotten section and not lose the beat. Every blue moon or so this happens and you create something brand new that you can try to keep doing in the future. More often it is just a save, and when you are good at it, singing in your mind a phrase, you can get away with very little rehearsal of your material if you perform a lot.


The only "falsetas" i can sing are the simple ones like entre dos aguas or something and even there it totally sucks and sounds wrong and i think for me it would cause more damage than benefit . do you really sing the more "difficult" and complex falsetas?!?!


quote:

The second thing is more practical and is to simple make a little Iphone camera video of yourself. You can put it on youtube if you worry about storage space and make vid private for your eyes only. I have in fact been doing this for myself lately as practice time at home gets shorter. I can watch my vids and make a mental note of fingerings and rediscover the stuff when I have time.


We wanne see those videos!
Show us what you exactly mean and give us access to those private vids, so that we understand better what you mean

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 14:01:39
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to Arash) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash



The only "falsetas" i can sing are the simple ones like entre dos aguas or something and even there it totally sucks and sounds wrong and i think for me it would cause more damage than benefit . do you really sing the more "difficult" and complex falsetas?!?!





It doesn't matter how bad your singing is. It will never do any harm. Don't worry about pitching every note accurately unless you are transcribing.

If you were tone deaf it would still help to sing falsetas. Don't be hung up about the quality of your voice,that's not helpful.

If you can't sing it you can't play it.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 14:40:34
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2181
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: What's the best way to remember ... (in reply to guitarbuddha) 
Play the falseta while you are accompanying a singer. If it fails, you go back home con tanta verguenza that you will learn it por cojones. The next time you play for a singer it will come out right. Or you admit that it is beyond your level. Then you simplify it or play something easier until you can accompany thinking only of the cante, then the guitar plays itself.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2013 15:45:37
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