Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to mark74)
quote:
Cool, you know about medieval Al Andalus
Paco dL. paid homage to it too with Ziryab. To me in the end Paco and Diego are just two ends of the same bridge. I walk back and forth on the bridge and love to listen to both.
What is the title of the Richard Fletcher book?
You know I've read the Sephardic jewish poets, the formal structure of the poetry is not the the same as flamenco letras, but the sentido is right there. Judah Halevy is my fav.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to mark74)
quote:
Cool, you know about medieval Al Andalus. I remember when i first discovered flamenco, because of Paco and Med Sundance (like everyone else) I became obsessed with medieval Spain and read a book by Richard Fletcher on the subject..not sure if you checked that one out..
In my opinion, the best book on Al Andalus is "The Ornament of the World," by Maria Rosa Menocal. Al Andalus was not a paradise by any means, and there were periods of oppression by some Muslim dynasties, particularly the Almoravids. But on the whole, compared to Christian Europe north of the Pyrenees at that time, Al Andalus was relatively tolerant, with Muslim, Christian, and Jewish populations living in relative harmony (although each knew its place in the scheme of things). Music, science, and philosophy thrived, with practitioners representing all three communities. I recommend "The Ornament of the World" to anyone who is interested in reading up on the subject.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to Ricardo)
Message to Ribnibbler:
This foro is a reunion de aficionados: some know nothing, some know a lot. It is better not to tread on toes if you don´t know who you are insulting. Better to be friends. Prominent Critic knows a lot about flamenco. My take on flamenco is very similar to that of Ricardo, with the caveat that I regard the cante as much more important than the guitar, which is not to say that I am right.
Aficionados who have no access to cante naturally focus on the guitar. Some on the dance. In the world of money, en el extranjero, dance rules. High profile dancers hire great cantaores y tocaores for world tours, although they are more flamenco than the dancers. Meanwhile, in Andalucía, cante rules. These are simply observations: please keep posting, because every point of view is valuable.
Tonight Joselito de Pura a la guitarra y su tío Silverio Heredia al cante, sin micro. Eso es flamenco
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
In my opinion, the best book on Al Andalus is "The Ornament of the World," by Maria Rosa Menocal. Al Andalus was not a paradise by any means, and there were periods of oppression by some Muslim dynasties, particularly the Almoravids. But on the whole, compared to Christian Europe north of the Pyrenees at that time, Al Andalus was relatively tolerant, with Muslim, Christian, and Jewish populations living in relative harmony (although each knew its place in the scheme of things). Music, science, and philosophy thrived, with practitioners representing all three communities. I recommend "The Ornament of the World" to anyone who is interested in reading up on the subject.
Cheers,
Bill
"Moorish Spain" by Fletcher http://tinyurl.com/d78mc2n takes a somewhat more sober view of the status of non-Islamic minorities in al-Andalus.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
"Moorish Spain" by Fletcher http://tinyurl.com/d78mc2n takes a somewhat more sober view of the status of non-Islamic minorities in al-Andalus.
I wouldn't call it a more sober view of the status of non-Islamic minorities in Al-Andalus. It is more a question of emphasis. Most historians grant that, given the era under discussion, Al-Andalus, particularly under the Caliphate of Cordoba, was a relatively tolerant society. Of course, Christians and Jews, "People of the Book" (referred to by the Muslims as the "Dhimmi") were second class citizens. They could not ride horses, carry swords, build houses higher than those of Muslims, hold high office, and they were subject to a special tax. Nevertheless, for the most part, Al-Andalus was a more tolerant society for Christians and Jews than, say, Europe north of the Pyrenees was for Jews. That said, there were periods, particularly under the Almoravids, when that tolerance disappeared and mass atrocities occurred. I would suggest that both Menocal and Fletcher reflect valid points of view regarding the history of Al-Andalus. Each emphasizes a particular aspect of that history. Above all, one must keep in mind the historical period under discussion, a period when there existed little tolerance anywhere, at least as we understand the term today. By that standard, Al-Andalus holds up pretty well.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to Ricardo)
There's another one called Farewell Espana, by Sachar, I think...it's about the Sephardic part of the era, but goes into workings of the khaliphate governments with Jewish appointees in various positions, mostly as teachers and mayors.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to RibNibbler)
quote:
ORIGINAL: RibNibbler
quote:
Tonight Joselito de Pura a la guitarra y su tío Silverio Heredia al cante, sin micro. Eso es flamenco
I have accompanied Silverio on several occasions.
I played for him too a LOOOOONG time ago when I didn't really know what I was doing. But my scale length is bigger than yours AND morante's too probably.
Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to RibNibbler)
@RibNibbler
To me there is nothing wrong with having an opnion and that opinions might even be tough to hear for some. But i think that you should rethink your intentions on this foro. Even though you probably know a lot more about flamenco then me, your way of argumenting doesnt make any sense to me.
You are insulting people who do great contributions to this place. You put things on a personal level, which i think nobody is interested in.
Maybe a useless comment for u, that you will feel as a personal attack, but i am saying it with the positive intentions. I would rather hear some of your opninions about flamenco :)
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to Flamencito)
quote:
You are insulting people who do great contributions to this place.
I was just generalizing the same as Morante was when he claimed to know what "the cantors" like best. Its kind of funny when the generalization gets turned around and then the unpopular point of view gets dumped on just because of its lack of popularity.
Music critics are wind bags in general. Every musician knows that. Musicians are taught that as soon as they show the slightest signs of proficiency on any instrument.
I think generalizing is the best way to learn stuff and sounding exactly like other players is super important too. I highly recommend everyone learning flamenco guitar to copy facial expressions of iconic figures.
quote:
I played for him too a LOOOOONG time ago when I didn't really know what I was doing. But my scale length is bigger than yours AND morante's too probably.
Last time I saw him he was begging forgiveness for stealing a large sum of money from a well know artist here in Kazakhstan. I wonder if he is still having those panic attacks.
_____________________________
Flamenco Guitar is a percussion instrument. Start acting like percussionists.
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to RibNibbler)
quote:
I think generalizing is the best way to learn stuff and sounding exactly like other players is super important too. I highly recommend everyone learning flamenco guitar to copy facial expressions of iconic figures.
I'd like to learn to sound exactly like Tomatito or Moraito. For me the "itos' have it. Too bad I'll just be sucky old me.
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to RibNibbler)
Ribnibbler, you said: "I was just generalizing the same as Morante was when he claimed to know what the cantors" like best. "
Here is the original post of Morante. Explain where is the generalization?? When you read posts, are you capable of understanding what they say?
"The legacy of Diego among flamencos is far from dead, irrespective of his importance to Americans. Quite a few tocaores quote his falsetas and his style and these tocaores are greatly appreciated by cantaores.
One of the best is Joselito de Pura from Chiclana, whose maestro was Paco del Gastor. The interesting thing is that cantaores regard him as "flamenco puro" while many guitarists of the modern school regard him as limited.
Of course, what the cantaores think of the modern school guitarists is another subject altogether"
Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands
RE: Diego del Gastor essay by Brook ... (in reply to RibNibbler)
RibNibler, i see the point you mention.. And i am a big fan of critisism from all angles. But what i meant is that your way of commenting on stuff sometimes make it hard to see the point you try to make. Maybe it just needs some context for me... But well i will just keep on reading :)
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread