Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
I found several threads about classical vs negra, but has anyone tried to take a classical guitar and convert it into a real negra by changing the top?
My father has a beautiful old classical guitar that will be mine one day, and although I enjoy listening to classical guitar, I am not much of a classical player. I thought it would be interesting to try and convert it to a negra.
Would it be possible for a luthier to use the rosewood back and sides and build a proper negra?
Thanks much for any advice/insights!
(I should add that the top has some slight damage as the bridge has started to lift off of the guitar)
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
Posts: 1708
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
It is quite involved to change the top on a guitar--maybe easier to start from scratch. But there are luthiers who like that kind of work and it is possible.
Since the bridge is coming off already, it might be good to replace it with a lower, flamenco-style bridge if the neck angle and fingerboard height allow for a lower action, and see if you like the result as a negra.
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
Thanks for advice so far. I know it is not ideal to butcher a classical guitar this way, but it is the only way I can think to turn the guitar into something I can use instead of something with sentimental value that will just sit in its case because I cannot sell it.
Just recycling the rosewood back and sides does seem extreme, but I figure by changing the top the guitar can be truly converted to a flamenco, since I am guessing the top is one of the most important elements there?
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
It depends on the guitar, some guitars would have potential for this conversion and some would never become flamenco even if you changed the top.
Some classicals, depending on the sound, will lend themselves well to being converted to a negra by just lowering the action and maybe shaving down the fingerboard more at the soundhole end to allow for a lower saddle height. This will lead to lower torque on the top so you might be able to shave the braces down a little. On some guitars that will be enough to leave you with an acceptable sounding negra.
The retopping is pretty extreme... it's so easy to just make a new guitar
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
Just recycling the rosewood back and sides does seem extreme, but I figure by changing the top the guitar can be truly converted to a flamenco, since I am guessing the top is one of the most important elements there?
I have a feeling you dont know how Spanish guitars are made...
What is the stringheight at the bridge over the top? 6th string at 12th fret? and how thick is the fingerboard at the nut and at the soundhole?
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
I have a feeling you dont know how Spanish guitars are made...
Yes Anders, and there is no way I am doing this myself for this reason. I wish I could, but I would probably end up burning the guitar as a sacrifice like Jimi Hendrix.
I can get you those measurements soon Anders! Will you use them to determine whether it is enough to just replace the bridge which is peeling off of the top anyway and needs replacing?
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
My father has a beautiful old classical guitar that will be mine one day, and although I enjoy listening to classical guitar, I am not much of a classical player. I thought it would be interesting to try and convert it to a negra.
"My father has a beautiful old classical."
Think about that statement. Do you really want to convert something you unselfconsciously called a beautiful old thing from your father?
Also think about this, if you change it and decide you want your fathers beautiful old classical back, can you reverse what you have done to it?
If you simply slipped in a lower saddle, carefully taped a temporary tap plate on the face and played it for a day or two you may get an idea of what it would be like.
Does it do rasgueado to your satisfaction? If not, don't convert it. Not worth it.
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
"My father has a beautiful old classical."
Think about that statement. Do you really want to convert something you unselfconsciously called a beautiful old thing from your father?
I totally agree and I don't want the guitar ruined, but I don't want it sitting in a case forever either. I will try the rasgueado test and since the bridge needs replacing anyway, perhaps leave it at that for now.
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
oh,
well it has sentimental value. It belongs to my dad now who does not play too much anymore, but growing up it was his pride and joy and I was not allowed to play it. Not sure I could bring myself to sell it you see.
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
Glue the bridge back on and start playing it in front of him and then he'll be happy. Then if he can, he will try to take it away from you and play himself.
There must be some classical piece that you could play, what are you interested in?
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Harry
oh,
well it has sentimental value. It belongs to my dad now who does not play too much anymore, but growing up it was his pride and joy and I was not allowed to play it. Not sure I could bring myself to sell it you see.
On occasion I will take the time to fine tune other guitars than my own, for a guitar factory in Spain. What are the number of fan braces in the top and who made the guitar. Is it a high quality instrument or a less expensive brand? How long is the playing scale and how high is the bridge saddle on the 6th string, at the bridge? Measure right under the 6th string, at the bridge, from the top.
I normally charge 500 to 750 US for the project and about 2800 US for top replacement. A well known Chicago builder usually charges about 4500 US....... And you pay the shipping charges both ways. And if the guitar is Brazilian rosewood sides and back, then it's best not to ship it across borders.
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
Glue the bridge back on and start playing it in front of him and then he'll be happy. Then if he can, he will try to take it away from you and play himself.
There must be some classical piece that you could play, what are you interested in?
Hey!
I love Villa-Lobos. His compositions are funky.
Well, I am not sure if this thread has helped me or confused me more. Definitely altering the guitar feels risky and pricey.
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
Posts: 15722
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
as mentioned lower bone put on tap plate and that's about the best its worth doing. THats all most players do anyway that like a classical guitar and used if for flamenco. Wont be as fun a set up as a proper flamenco but it might sound good.
RE: Converting a Classical to a Negra (in reply to Harry)
quote:
as mentioned lower bone put on tap plate and that's about the best its worth doing. THats all most players do anyway that like a classical guitar and used if for flamenco. Wont be as fun a set up as a proper flamenco but it might sound good.
thanks for this and for all of your advice everyone. I think that for now this is the best option since doing anything more extreme may cost too much and may alter something that has much sentimental value.
_____________________________
"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread