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Neck Angle
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estebanana
Posts: 9396
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)
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Hey Maui, Just make more the way you made them. The Solera Police are not going to put you in Bolton Prison if you don't comply. I went to Bolton Prison, just to watch them cry, Those overbearing zealots who have solera minds. I went down to Bolton Prison, just to watch them cry. You know you can't put me in there, because my nuts are tight and dry. Solera Warden Anders tried to catch my legs, But I greased them up with hide glue, and he fell on his face, Old Anders was fretting..... he fumbled with his pegs, I took a swig of Everclear then I sprayed him down with mace. Then Gimpy little Andy grabbed my plane and saw, He's a mean guard at Bolton, wants me behind his bars, He tried to steal my router, but his hands was just too raw, I busted his solera with one karate chop, took his key a stole his car (spoken word part) Can't put me in Bolton Prison...noooo no. Estebanana that dirty talking pig, was off eating donuts like some fat big wig, he was braggin about soleras....... and climbing the Sierras All the while I gave him the slip. Because I ain't going to Bolton Prison, that just ain't hip. Chorus The Solera Police are coming, but I give them the slip, The Solera Police are coming, and my neck angles fine, I'm an outlaw bolt on maker, but they don't get my trip, The Solera Police are coming, but my neck joints are sublime.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jul. 11 2012 5:03:27
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El Burdo
Posts: 634
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
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RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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Hi Ethan I am copying your solera method and am just about to glue the fan braces. I has just struck me, now that it is in my hands, that the order in which you glue things might have a bearing on the eventual curveture of the top. I have glued the top harmonic bar and soundhole supports but what's next? If I glue the braces they are likely, but not certain, to all be flat to the base of the solera at their top, and only curve upwards as they reach the bottom of the guitar, from the bridge - is this correct? I'm assuming that the lower harmonic bar is not glued under tension but simply lain across the top and glued to the board - with uncomfortably, the minimum of pressure - maybe a poor joint. However, if the LHB IS glued first, then there will potentially be a different curveture introduced for the braces to start off with as they will definitely be flat against the base of the solera at the top (near the LHB) So, braces first, or lower harmonic bar first? Or does it not make any difference? There is another problem in that the through-back screwed clamp now pulls the top down to the base of the bottomed out solera as well. Should that be in and under pressure before braces and lower harmonic bar are glued in. If it's not used, or used weakly, it can hardly hold the top to the solera base. None of this would have arisen of course if the carved portion of the solera began at the LHB rather than the UHB. Sorry there are so many points but I like the idea at the beginning, now I'm not sure if I'm doin' it right! Thanks, again.
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Date May 5 2013 17:19:19
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El Burdo
Posts: 634
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
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RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)
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Hi Ethan one more time... I'm just about to use your solera method for my new Barbero 'type' guitar as I like the natural symmetricality of it. I think I understand the method barring one small thing... - the fan braces will be glued on to a soundboard that is being pulled onto the base of the solera by the clamp that passes through the soundhole. That so far, is to an arbitrary depth that is built up at the bridge to a known value so the bridge will be at the proper measurable point of curveture. i.e. 2mm, say. The top of the braces may be at a lower (looking down onto the underside of the s/board as in the solera) point than they are at the bridge, depending on the initial routing depth, but so far so good. I can see that when the clamp which holds the soundboard to the solera base (which I will naturally put in upside down...) is removed the soundboard will take up its 'at rest' curveture. At this point, by gluing the top to the (curved) Lower Harmonic Bar it will take up the curveture designed into the LHB. So, more control at the base of the soundhole. But...that doesn't happen does it? The clamp has to be kept in place to hold the soundboard in place for subsequent work, attaching it to the sides etc. So, really, the LHB has to be carved to fit the curve governed by the depth of the routing of the solera.The only way the LHB can be shaped to a different curveture is if the clamp attaching the s/board to the solera is loosened. Is that right? In the end, I'm going to do it anyway but if there is a secret technique that I'm missing, I'd like to know about it now. Thanks.
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Date Oct. 9 2013 21:11:49
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constructordeguitarras
Posts: 1689
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
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RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)
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Hi, Burdo. I appreciate the way you are trying to understand all the details of this. Maybe I never really did and just kept adjusting things until I got it the way I wanted it. Somehow I once decided to make the depth of the routed out part of the solera 1/8". There were times when I used a different depth and I think in fact I have shimmed it up so it is shallower now (less doming). The depth at the bridge (shims) is the only one (only depth of the routed area) that counts because with the edges of the soundboard up on the unrouted part, no part of the soundboard could ever be pressed down lower than the bridge area, due to the stiffness of the soundboard. (Oh, I see your concern about above the bridge area, but the shim extends considerably up and the waist acts as the top of the belly--and I intentionally place the middle of three gobars on each fan brace right in the bridge area when gluing on fan braces.) A long time ago I made a template for the curve of the lower harmonic bar following a method given in Natelson's and Cumpiano's book, which went something like this: Take a piece of flexible steel bar with maybe 3/16" square cross section and about the length of the lower harmonic bar. Put a brad in a piece of plywood topped with paper (the paper is on the plywood) at the center of the bar on your side of it. Pull the bar so that the ends of the bar move 1/16" towards you, leaving the center stopped by the brad. Put brads at the ends of the bar on the side away from you so it holds that curve. Trace that curve onto the paper. That is the curve for the lower harmonic bar. I am always able to glue the lower harmonic bar to the soundboard with only gobars (maybe because the soundboard is being bent/suspended in a similar manner to the way the steel bar was). I don't use that clamp that is secured through the soundhole while I brace it; it would be in the way. I just use a little masking tape at the top and bottom of the soundboard to hold it in place (See photo above). The gobars that I use for the fan braces do a much better job of pushing the soundboard down to meet the shimmed area of the solera. Later, after the soundboard is braced, that clamp through the soundhole is helpful for keeping the soundboard in place and its edges as low as possible while the sides and endblock are attached to it. If you made the lower harmonic bar so it had a curve made by placing those outer brads >1/8" from the center one, I think you would have a problem gluing it to the soundboard on the solera with a 1/8" depth of routed area. The curve does have to fit the curves that can be formed by pressing the soundboard into the routed out area of the solera. I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can tell you anything else.
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Ethan Deutsch www.edluthier.com www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
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Date Oct. 10 2013 2:06:36
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