Please help with Chinese bending iron

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Please help with Chinese bending iron

I got this bending iron over Ebay from China because it seems like the temperature is controllable and the replacement heating elements for it are inexpensive. It is supposed to be wired for 250 V. It came with a 2-prong plug that could only be for 115 V in the USA, where as far as I know all 250 V plugs have at least three prongs, 2 hot wires and a ground wire. What could the wires on this be?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 22:53:52

gitarque

Posts: 8
Joined: Jul. 24 2012

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

The two prong plug configuration used in the USA is also used in other countries that use 220V-250V.

I would simply just plug it in and if it does not get hot enough, then it is wired for a much higher voltage and you will need a 220V-250V source or a transformer.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:08:52

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to gitarque)

I plugged it into a 115 V outlet and lights on it lit up but no heating occurred. It is not possible to plug it into a 250 V receptacle with this plug, as the 250 V receptacle has one of the blades going the other way. I could change the plug if I knew what the wires are supposed to be--hot or ground. Perhaps two hot wires go to one of the wires in the bending iron and the ground to the other? I don't want to black out my whole neighborhood.... Thanks.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:26:50

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

This is a 250volt plug , it has a live and a neutral and no earth ,( cos it is double insulated .)

A three pin plug has live , neutral and earth ,
if you have 220v to 250volt supply where you are then you can just cut the plug off get another that fits your wall and put in on ......
or ...
you can get an adaptor that this plugs into , and the adaptor itself plugs into the wall ........
Attention any plug or adaptor that you get must be rated for at least 10 amps as this i what is marked on it .

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:27:24

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

no no , do not put it into 115v that is not powerful enough to run it .......it will not heat , but you may still blow a fuse....

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:28:53

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I do not know what supply you have but it must be between 220 and 250 volts if it is you are OK .

If it is not you will need a tranformer.......

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:31:19

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

The standard here is 240 or thereabouts but it is still single phase and our plugs are wired hot, neutral and ground.
Some appliances which are not considered to require grounding only use a 2 prong plug and have no ground lug.
Your 250 volt in the USA is a three phase supply ours is 415
A bending iron will only be single phase

I suspect you have a european spec unit.
I agree, try it and see if it gets hot enough, if not get a 110 v element

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:31:42

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Oh sorry I seee you in USA , then you do not have 220/ 240 in your house , you will need a transformer to up you 115 to 230( ratio 2:1) and use that , and change the plug to fit ,
and have at least 10 amps output available .... this means on the house side it will use 20 amps , more or less...

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:35:27

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to Jeff Highland)

quote:

I agree, try it and see if it gets hot enough,

sorry Jeff.....
No DO NOT try it , it is clearly marked for 220 volts ... you will damage some internal parts as I also see it is digital , the display and if you half the voltage or reduce it you will also inadvertantly double the current ...(Amps)

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:38:59

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to El Kiko)

Thanks, but I installed two 250-V outlets in my shop that work fine with my 250-V dust collector and bandsaw, and I assure you they have two hot wires and one ground (earth if you like). Each hot wire is only 110 to 115 V. It could be that I need to connect both hot wires to one of the leads on the iron. I know that it needs the ground connected somewhere to work. (A "grounding" wire is slightly different from a ground wire and is to prevent shocks, and I can deal with that separately.) Single phase and three phase are another thing altogether. Heavy industries use three phase power because it gives more constant torque to motors. Household current is one-phase.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:46:06

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Forget about ground or earth as you cable does not have one ,....
it only has one live , which should be 230 volts and also the other wire would be the neutral , which is the return path ,

If you have a 250 volt outlet that works with other 250volt appliances that you have then it will also work with this , except you must have a compatible plug ,

I think perhaps there is some confusion of your terminologly .

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:52:45

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

would one of these work?

http://www.world-import.com/plug-chart.htm

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:56:50

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to KMMI77)

yes that is the kind of adaptor I mentioned earlier ,...
Except I do not know what his 250v socket looks like , and also some of these have fuses in them , if so it must be rated for 10 amps at least ,
I just think it would be easier to change the plug.

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2012 23:59:39

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Your two hot wires on your 250v are out of phase with each other which is how they achieve the 250 or so volts. each of the leads is only 115v from ground
So don't put the hot leads together that will make a short.
You may be ok just to plug it in if you have 250 between the two terminals, but what do I know, i'm not an electrician
As far as I know plugging a 240 volt appliance into 110 will lead to reduced current.
It's the other way around with USA appliances and 240v that causes problems.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 1:17:42

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to Jeff Highland)

Thanks, guys. The problem is not the plug, because I can get a plug that will fit my outlets. It is how to wire the plug.

I heard from a knowledgeable source that the power supply I have IS two phase, because it is made up of two sources of half the voltage. And that if neither lead from the iron is grounded to the body of the iron, then I can attach both leads from the iron to the two hot wires of the outlet, respectively, and it will work. (Exactly what you said, Jeff.) Only, I may get electrocuted if I touch both an exposed conducting section of the iron and a grounded conductor. So maybe I should make out my will before trying it.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 1:45:09

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

If it is supplied with an ungrounded plug, it SHOULD be totally insulated

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 2:16:49

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

i would go on the safe side and run it through a 20 amp breaker. just because the plug says 10A (amp) if the wattage is high then you need to pull out your banjo and recall West Virginia (WVA) as in watts = volts x amps. you can solve for A (amp) if you know the wattage and volts. a lot of appliances that have heating elements that run off 220 volts use a 20 amp breaker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 2:18:38

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

then I can attach both leads from the iron to the two hot wires of the outlet, respectively, and it will work.

This is right and it is what you have ...2 x 110v supplies , out of phase with each other , because of the rotating or phase angle they both pass through a cycle from 110v to 0v but not at the same time , therefore if you measured the difference between them your meter would read 220v.
None of the 2 leads in your apparatus are connected to an earth or any part of the frame , you would just change the plug and wire the two leads in to the respective pins and ignore the 3rd one ( ground ) .then plug it into 220v socket
It will still draw a max of 10Amps regardless and the power will be 2500watts...

Do not ever join the two wires together , unless you need a firework display .......

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 9:58:44

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to Jeff Highland)

I think you're right, Jeff--and my ohm meter agrees. So I got a plug compatible with my 250V 20A receptacle, wired the two hot wires to the two leads on the iron, separately, and it seems to be working, and I seem to still be alive, though I haven't heated it all the way up and bent sides with it yet.

Thanks everyone; you're a great community, taking the trouble to help.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 22:52:16

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Glad you're still with us.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 18 2012 23:12:06

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to El Kiko)

Thanks to you Kiko for trying so hard to get me to understand. You must be right, it is double insulated and that's why there's no ground. I am surprised that the two 110V lines that make up my 220 (or 250) V line are out of phase because they come from the same house service. The mysteries of electrical engineering. Anyway, it's working now.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 19 2012 4:16:36

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Please help with Chinese bending... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I suppose I should have mentioned before I'm an electrical engineer and now I am designing and building machines for my company , mainly industrial background ,...

So if you need a fuse changing , I have a degree in that .....

Anyway , finally its working .....Yeeeah !! ....now go and bend something in chinese !!!!

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 19 2012 10:15:06