Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
RE: Playing music for a living or or occasionally for money
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Erik van Goch
Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
|
 RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Paleto)
|
|
|
In the early 80ties i studied Zoology/Histology myself at high school, receiving a study grand from government. I did attend classes but hardly spent any time to additional study at all. Instead i spend my of school hours playing the guitar and several other instruments. As a result i did fail 1 out of 3 years, but i managed to graduate at the end.
In the midd 80ties (after combining playing the guitar with finding a job) i entered Rotterdam high school of Music in order to study flamenco on a full time base. Soon i goth addicted to chess and in stead of playing flamenco i spend most of my time behind a chess board (more often than not 24/7). The first 4 years i still received a study grand from government. On top i found myself a job on saturday mornings as a postman (regular income and free health insurance). I did attend classes but most of my time was waisted to chess. As a result i failed to do my final exam in time. I ended up delaying it a couple of years more but after 8 years of "study" i finally became the 4th officially graduated flamenco guitar instructor of, well basically the world since it was the only music high school offering a master study flamenco guitar to start with.
The last few years i had to survive without a government grand. On top of being a part time postman (saturdays and holidays) i did find myself a job at a flamenco dans school accompanying both beginners/middle/advanced classes. 1 night became 2 (and sometimes even 3) and all together i had a well payed but insecure job on 2 or 3 flamenco dans schools covering 6-10 hours a week for a couple of years. On top i had 1 or 2 students and occasionally some work as a performing artist. At that time (around 1991) i earned something like $300-400 a mound, enough to pay the bills and live a sober live.
After i graduated i found some additional work offering flamenco courses at the local music school. Also i spend more days working as a postman. I entered a flamenco group and performed every once in a wile (mainly big festivals and concert hals). That didn't generate much money but it was fun to do and i did menage to maintain 400-500 a mound (enough to pay the bills) having lot's of time to spare. When our flamenco singer moved to Spain again our group departed. I did had some offers (which i declined) and in 1995 i decided to become a full time postman. I still am and practice flamenco only as a hobby ever since.
Most flamenco students struggle to pay the bill, but i never ever met anyone who entered the world of flamenco to become rich and famous. Even Paco de Lucia himself stated once that he considered it to be a huge privilege that he was allowed to make a living as a musician and was able to pay both the rend and his foot in the process. Try to find yourself some gigs, students or dans schools (i was an un-payed guest for mounds before i was asked to become a payed first guitarist). Try to live sober and to generate some public activities. Ones people begin to know you (from lessons, performances etc.) things could change for the better (work generates work). You could start working a little less at your precent job (concentrate your musical activities to evenings, weekends or vast days of the week if possible). Get used to spending less money and gradually replace one live for another. It might take a couple of years and will always remain an financially uncertain live.
But you never know. In 1955 my father quit his job cold turkey to become a full time musician at the age of 22. He worked his buts out and haven't been without a job a single day since. As a result he doubled his salary in the first mound and it would only raise the upcoming years. But don't expect the same results cause his working hours were incredible (12 ours a day, 362 days a year over 45 year period).
First his fabulous band joined an established dance couple which gave them access to al the hotspots. Once known they soon became one of the most popular bands in the Netherlands during the 50's and 60's. They had mayor contracts at the biggest hotspots of the country. On top of composing, arranging, studying and rehursing they had to perform 6 hours a day ON STAGE, 362 days a year over a 10 year period. That equals over 20.000 hours of stage play, probably more than any of the individual beatles (20000 hours equals 10000 concerts, that's 1 concert a day over a 27 year period without skipping a single day!).
In the midd 60's he entered high school of music to study classical guitar and on top of a full time job as a guitar teacher at the local music school he managed to skip a year and graduated cum laude in only 4 years of time. He became the head of the classical guitar department himself and remained working 12 hours a day, almost every day of the year for the next 30 year. In 1985 he joined Paco Pena and Ricardo Mendevile in their adventure offering the very first High school master study of Flamenco Guitar ever. That's were i joined in.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 22 2012 1:03:25
 |
|
felipe
Posts: 39
Joined: Jul. 1 2010
From: Poland
|
|
RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Ricardo)
|
|
|
Yes. I think this is the way to go - seeing good things inside things that seem not oto look too good (critic, any kind of crisis and so on).
Playing music for money is only a part of my earnings (I have a regular job, but connected with culture, so I can see also the other part of music - organising gigs, promotion and so on), but it is a part of it for about 10 years (dance classes acompaniament, guitar lessons, cajon workshops, education concerts for children, playing with my friend's latin - jazz band as a replacement, playing bigger concerts with other flamencos).
The thing is I don't see a way for transition to full time (flamenco is a kind of not to popular in my area, children and lots of other things). At least not now. But I know some people that are full timers (members of the latin-jazz band I wrote about). What they say is it was a lot of work to make situation be as it is, but it was worth.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 25 2012 7:34:49
|
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to paleto3)
|
|
|
Paleto,
amazing that it has been so long!
I got the impression from your other thread that you are a "true" artist who really does put his art before any kind of business considerations. That attitude is often ridiculed in this country, but I applaud you. It sounds like you are doing what you have to do. I noticed in the luthiery threads that there are some like you, for example Anders, who has the artistic soul as well.
However, about the women thing--you probably can't support a high-maintenance woman, but you probably can find a beautiful one who is willing to enter into a partnership with you. A flamenco dancer, a girl who likes musicians and also works odd hours, another artist, maybe even a professional who appreciates you and who, with mutual compromise, can make it work. Most of the guitarists around here have women that, genetically speaking, they don't deserve :)
I think that the artist who wants to make a go at it should study business and try to cook up ways to make some cash, too. You can play weddings, corporate events, funerals (yes, I have!), sell CDs... How much to compromise is never an easy question.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 6 2012 1:55:53
|
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to Erik van Goch)
|
|
|
Erik,
it is a known fact that too low a price has a bad effect on perceived quality. In my experience, cheap clients, who are actively looking for a low price, are often disrespectful, unpleasant, and refer friends like themselves. In other words, they are more trouble than they are worth.
There is a photographer in this state that supposedly starts at $20,000 to shoot a wedding. I think it is a promotional gimmick to differentiate himself from the masses and jump into the luxury market.
Generally speaking, I think it is better to go for the slight high end.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 6 2012 2:02:00
|
|
Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
|
|
RE: Playing music for a living or or... (in reply to paleto3)
|
|
|
Interesting discussions and stories guys, thanks.
Paleto, its the exact opposite. Almost every musician i know attracts woman. And most of those girls are not some stupid groupie type girls (ok,one is), but intelligent and beautiful at the same time.
One of my friends is fat and baldie and small, and he has a long time girlfriend who is beautiful and very smart and also really loves the guy. She saw him first time while he was performing (he plays drums). He doesn't have money, but no problem for the girl. She also helps him, actually she has more money than he has lol
So it must be the music, the art, soulful playing whatever, etc. which attracted this girl at first.
Also not all girls have those "spending habbits" you talk about.
But you need to be open minded and also relaxed yourself. Don't think about your bank account when you play lol, that will make you unattractive.
You need to be yourself and fully in your music.
You will find the right girl man. Its much easier than you think. Just relax
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 6 2012 22:44:44
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|
Printable Version
Some years later she seemed to really like me and liked hanging out and singing for me so I could learn to accompany some stuff. Another time a mediocre singer told others behind my back I was not very good and perhaps in 10 years I would be good. Well, that was 13 years ago and he was right!!! 
