Paco vs. Paco

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Paco vs. Paco

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Paco vs. Paco

I've been listening to Paco Pena a lot, whereas before I would listen to Paco de Lucia all the time. I must say that I am having a lot more fun with Pena. He just doesn't do anything ridiculous, that is just beyond the realm of a normal, skilled human, whereas Paco does that every song. As HEnrik said, every piece there's that ONE part that's _impossible_ to play. It's probably just a stage, but it's nice to hear music by mortals too!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 0:43:04

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I feel that you can't compare both even though they're both flamenco guitarists in their own right. Pena is on the extreme end of tradition, while PdL is on the extreme end of creativity. Both have technical abilities that are beyond my reach in the near future so I deeply respect both of them. While PdL gives you ideas of modern flamenco creativity, Pena is excellent learning material and creative in the traditional way too. Listening intensively to both is what I do.

Cheston

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Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 1:57:26

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 20 2005 20:57:04

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 6:37:42

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Reminds me of some stuff from this book, not sure I agree with it or not...

"All the great musicians of past and present have this much in common: thye displayed their gifts early in childhood. It was said of Handel that he could sing before he could talk and one thinks immediaely of Mozart, classic example of the 'Wunderkind.'...The most important point about infant prodigies is that their talent manifests itself spontaneously, untaught and unlearned. In fact, it is often the discovery of talent in the child which has prompted his parents into arranging for it to be trained, not the reverse...Talent may be briefly defined as the ability to perform without training, the amount of talent displayed being in inverse proportion to the amount of training required....the integration of thought and action which the virtuoso takes for granted as part of his equipment is seldom achieved by lesser talents, even after long years of study and practice...Furthermore the equality of execution displayed in the finished product by the slow learner is not likely to surpass that of his quicker colleague...etc."
The Pianist's Talent, Harold Taylor

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 16:03:48

Mark2

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Have to disagree about tomatito-I think he is a virtuoso-he only lacks the monster picado, but he more than makes up for it with rythmic devices. I think his compas is as good as it gets, which makes for a very flamenco way of expressing his greatness.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 16:14:10

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Tomatito can play a very fast and long picado, too. I saw him at the bienal some years ago. He did a triol-picado over 2 whole compases at the end of his Bulerias. I dont know why he dont do this very often, but he can. And his thumb is fast..damn. Hes definetely a big virtuoso. And very innovative, maybe more than Paco de lucia. And nobody plays so hard rytmical bulerias as him. Not moraito is the king of bulerias. Tomatito is.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 17:04:30

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Tomatito is certainly a virtuoso.

His sense of rhythm is just rediculous. Just as complex and
beautiful as anything Paco has done, imho.

I mean, just listen to this.

http://michaelk101.com/todd/toddmp3/tomatitobulerias.mp3

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 18:57:14

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to ToddK)

Ole...Fantastic!!
All these top guys are geniuses in their own way.
There is no "best" IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 19:50:56

Chansey

Posts: 19
Joined: Apr. 11 2005

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

If you ask me, I will say that Tomatito's greatest strengths lies in his beautiful falsetas. They are rather melodious, and actually have that gypsy sound to them. Admittedly, his picados and tremolo seem just a tad bit uneven to me, but his compas and falsetas are very well done. I mean there are players with greater technical ability and more sophisticated pieces, but Tomatito just brings me back to simple catchy falsetas and a hard driving compas.

PS: And he's indeed the king of bulerias. I realised that after checking my folder to realise most of the bulerias in it is by him

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2005 5:17:02

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Paco vs. Paco (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I saw him at the bienal some years ago. He did a triol-picado over 2 whole compases at the end of his Bulerias. I dont know why he dont do this very often, but he can.

That's definitely a crowd pleaser during a live performance, but I think his sense of good taste keeps him from doing it on his studio recordings. The point is he's capable of doing it, and he knows when it's appropriate to be flashy and when it's not. His accompaniment of Camaron on the Live in Paris CD is a study in minimalism. He doesn't do anything flashy, and what an incredible sense of compas he has. Listen to the Alegrias as an example. It sounds simple until you try it.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2005 7:04:14