Tomatito Bulerias

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Tomatito Bulerias

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Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

Tomatito Bulerias

In Tomatito’s Encuentro Video after the Bulerias he and his palmeros demonstrate the compas by rapping knuckles on the table. I just can’t seem to catch the groove and on video tape it’s hard to keep rewinding and, of course, I can’t slow it down. Can anybody here, with better ears and eyes than me, transcribe exactly what they are doing? I’d like to see it in the following format.

A basic Bulerias compas. (i)=index finger (k)=knuckles. Knuckles mark the accented beats.
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
k- i- i- k-i-i- k-i-k- i- k- i

What they are doing in the video is far more complex than this and I’d really appreciate it if some one could accurately transcribe it.

Thanks,
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 6:56:44

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 21 2005 7:02:47

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2005 9:32:01

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to duende)

quote:

try this. It´s not Tomatito video but anyway

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
K i i K i i i Ki K i K i

I´ll make a video right now ok.

Henrik

Henrik,
If I'm not mistaken that's exactly the same pattern I just posted. So, don't make the Henrik video just yet.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2005 6:43:29

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

Henrik,
I was mistaken. You have 13 beats in your pattern. Did you stick an extra 'i' in somewhere?
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2005 6:46:18

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

look at the short SHORT video. It´s the syncopations that ad an extra i. The eight notes.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2005 7:02:22

loop

Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 21 2005

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

i think it should be this type:

k i i k i i i k k i k i

but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 15:31:42

Guest

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to loop)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loop
...
but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?

??? what are you trying to find out? dont you start the ABC on A without knowing the reason, either?
btw. counting is only a (helpful) tool to understand the rythm, that is the only goal IMHO. if you want you can create an own pattern and start counting on 99 or anything else, as long as you are able to give a picture of the rythm...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 18:41:58

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

why is it logging out if you press the "post reply" button i dont understand it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 18:44:00

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to XXX)

quote:

why is it logging out if you press the "post reply" button i dont understand it

Could be a session time-out, which is set to 60 mins.

So, if you have been logged in for over 60 mins without activity, it will log you out.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 19:06:38

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

no i wasnt 60 min online. short description: i press the "post reply" button and the browser jumps to the homepage and im logged out or logged as guest as it says on the right...

but it might also be due to my opera browser. for example i cant upload anything with opera coz when i press upload the file upload dialogue does not open in a new window but in the same (no pop-up blocking). i can only upload with IE. so what im trying to say is that there might be more things that dont work with opera and in combination with the forum software.

but im not complaining, no!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 19:16:49

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to XXX)

quote:

there might be more things that dont work with opera and in combination with the forum software

Software revision is coming but this forum does not favour any particular browser. Do you have any new firewall software running?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 19:29:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

i have no NEW firewall... its an old (2003 maybe?) version... i use it to control which program may have access and which not. i dont believe it could block h*ckers or so

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 19:32:21

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

Can't you post A sound sample Phil. I'm sure I can figure it out. (almost

) I haven't got the video.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 19:38:08

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to loop)

quote:

but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?

Loop,
Counting systems are only counting systems, a method where outsiders can make some sense of what's going on.
No more!
If you listen to the "chording" compás of Bulerias, (the bit inbetween verses, or falsetas in a solo) it will appear to sound very much like an up-beat Soleares with the accents 1,2,3 (Bflat)...and finish generally on 6 or 10.
Play that over and over again to get the feel...
Now if you listen closely, you'll find that a lot of falsetas don't start on the 1 beat (say like Soleares or Alegrias), but the 12 beat, going by the original counting system I explained.
They jump in a little bit early and change the syncopation.

That's what gives Bulerias it's jumpy, up beat sound.

It's not too important about this "counting" thing, but it does help to understand what's going on.
Bulerias is difficult, and there are even a few professionals who over-extend themselves and find that they are out of compás (in practise).
That's what makes this palo so much fun and as big a challenge you want it to be!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 20:48:54

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Phil)

quote:

A basic Bulerias compas. (i)=index finger (k)=knuckles. Knuckles mark the accented beats.
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
k- i- i- k-i-i- k-i-k- i- k- i

I first saw this in Saura's Flamenco where Tomatito is playing a buleria. Potito and Duquende are singing, but also at the table are these 2 guys sitting between Duquende and the dancers. It took me forever to figure out the rhythm. Now I haven't seen the Encuentro video to which you speak of, but I think the transcription above is exactly what they're doing in the Flamenco video with an added AMI rasgeado every now and then. The only way I can sync up is if I slow the video down.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2005 22:18:44

loop

Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 21 2005

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Ron.M)

thanks Ron.M! i used my little brain just figured out a little from your words. for example, is that when singer begin at first beat, the guitar falseta usually cut in the 1 beat before(12beat)? or the percussion part count in normal, like 123,456, and the guitar player play just one beat earlier?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2005 3:21:03

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to loop)

Loop,
In my opinion don't get too bogged down with numbers...just listen as much as you can, then it becomes more obvious.
It's impossible to learn Flamenco guitar from a book or music or tabs IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2005 20:38:08

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Ron.M)

a book only tell where the fingers go..not the sound

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2005 20:49:06

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tomatito Bulerias (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Loop,
In my opinion don't get too bogged down with numbers...just listen as much as you can, then it becomes more obvious.

Good advice and also do yourself a BIG favour and get a copy of Rons Flamenco Master.

I used to be completely flummoxed by bulerias too, and this helped a great deal. The point is to get that rhythmic cycle into your head so that you are not counting anything.

Have you ever played blues? If you have you would be able to sit down and jam a 12 bar blues with anyone, right? You would know exactly when the chord changes are coming up without any kind of counting, yes? Thats where you need to get to.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2005 8:45:17