Tomatito Bulerias (Full Version)

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Phil -> Tomatito Bulerias (Aug. 20 2005 6:56:44)

In Tomatito’s Encuentro Video after the Bulerias he and his palmeros demonstrate the compas by rapping knuckles on the table. I just can’t seem to catch the groove and on video tape it’s hard to keep rewinding and, of course, I can’t slow it down. Can anybody here, with better ears and eyes than me, transcribe exactly what they are doing? I’d like to see it in the following format.

A basic Bulerias compas. (i)=index finger (k)=knuckles. Knuckles mark the accented beats.
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
k- i- i- k-i-i- k-i-k- i- k- i


What they are doing in the video is far more complex than this and I’d really appreciate it if some one could accurately transcribe it.

Thanks,
Phil



duende -> [Deleted] (Aug. 20 2005 9:32:01)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 21 2005 7:02:47



Phil -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Aug. 21 2005 6:43:29)

quote:

try this. It´s not Tomatito video but anyway

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
K i i K i i i Ki K i K i

I´ll make a video right now ok.

Henrik


Henrik,
If I'm not mistaken that's exactly the same pattern I just posted. So, don't make the Henrik video just yet.[:)]
Phil



Phil -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Aug. 21 2005 6:46:18)

Henrik,
I was mistaken. You have 13 beats in your pattern. Did you stick an extra 'i' in somewhere?
Phil



duende -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Aug. 21 2005 7:02:22)

look at the short SHORT video. It´s the syncopations that ad an extra i. The eight notes.



loop -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 15:31:42)

i think it should be this type:

k i i k i i i k k i k i

but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?



Guest -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 18:41:58)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loop
...
but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?


??? what are you trying to find out? dont you start the ABC on A without knowing the reason, either?
btw. counting is only a (helpful) tool to understand the rythm, that is the only goal IMHO. if you want you can create an own pattern and start counting on 99 or anything else, as long as you are able to give a picture of the rythm...



XXX -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 18:44:00)

why is it logging out if you press the "post reply" button i dont understand it [:@][:'(]



Escribano -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 19:06:38)

quote:

why is it logging out if you press the "post reply" button i dont understand it
Could be a session time-out, which is set to 60 mins.

So, if you have been logged in for over 60 mins without activity, it will log you out.



XXX -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 19:16:49)

no i wasnt 60 min online. short description: i press the "post reply" button and the browser jumps to the homepage and im logged out or logged as guest as it says on the right...

but it might also be due to my opera browser. for example i cant upload anything with opera coz when i press upload the file upload dialogue does not open in a new window but in the same (no pop-up blocking). i can only upload with IE. so what im trying to say is that there might be more things that dont work with opera and in combination with the forum software.

but im not complaining, no!



Escribano -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 19:29:12)

quote:

there might be more things that dont work with opera and in combination with the forum software


Software revision is coming but this forum does not favour any particular browser. Do you have any new firewall software running?



XXX -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 19:32:21)

i have no NEW firewall... its an old (2003 maybe?) version... i use it to control which program may have access and which not. i dont believe it could block h*ckers or so [:-] :)



koella -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 19:38:08)

Can't you post A sound sample Phil. I'm sure I can figure it out. (almost[:)]) I haven't got the video.



Ron.M -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 20:48:54)

quote:

but i still can't understand ,why we count the beats start on 12?

Loop,
Counting systems are only counting systems, a method where outsiders can make some sense of what's going on.
No more!
If you listen to the "chording" compás of Bulerias, (the bit inbetween verses, or falsetas in a solo) it will appear to sound very much like an up-beat Soleares with the accents 1,2,3 (Bflat)...and finish generally on 6 or 10.
Play that over and over again to get the feel...
Now if you listen closely, you'll find that a lot of falsetas don't start on the 1 beat (say like Soleares or Alegrias), but the 12 beat, going by the original counting system I explained.
They jump in a little bit early and change the syncopation.

That's what gives Bulerias it's jumpy, up beat sound.

It's not too important about this "counting" thing, but it does help to understand what's going on.
Bulerias is difficult, and there are even a few professionals who over-extend themselves and find that they are out of compás (in practise).
That's what makes this palo so much fun and as big a challenge you want it to be!

cheers

Ron



Francisco -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 18 2005 22:18:44)

quote:

A basic Bulerias compas. (i)=index finger (k)=knuckles. Knuckles mark the accented beats.
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
k- i- i- k-i-i- k-i-k- i- k- i

I first saw this in Saura's Flamenco where Tomatito is playing a buleria. Potito and Duquende are singing, but also at the table are these 2 guys sitting between Duquende and the dancers. It took me forever to figure out the rhythm. Now I haven't seen the Encuentro video to which you speak of, but I think the transcription above is exactly what they're doing in the Flamenco video with an added AMI rasgeado every now and then. The only way I can sync up is if I slow the video down.



loop -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 19 2005 3:21:03)

thanks Ron.M! i used my little brain just figured out a little from your words. for example, is that when singer begin at first beat, the guitar falseta usually cut in the 1 beat before(12beat)? or the percussion part count in normal, like 123,456, and the guitar player play just one beat earlier?



Ron.M -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 19 2005 20:38:08)

Loop,
In my opinion don't get too bogged down with numbers...just listen as much as you can, then it becomes more obvious.
It's impossible to learn Flamenco guitar from a book or music or tabs IMO.

cheers

Ron



duende -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 19 2005 20:49:06)

a book only tell where the fingers go..not the sound



Jon Boyes -> RE: Tomatito Bulerias (Oct. 20 2005 8:45:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Loop,
In my opinion don't get too bogged down with numbers...just listen as much as you can, then it becomes more obvious.


Good advice and also do yourself a BIG favour and get a copy of Rons Flamenco Master.

I used to be completely flummoxed by bulerias too, and this helped a great deal. The point is to get that rhythmic cycle into your head so that you are not counting anything.

Have you ever played blues? If you have you would be able to sit down and jam a 12 bar blues with anyone, right? You would know exactly when the chord changes are coming up without any kind of counting, yes? Thats where you need to get to.



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