Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound??   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? 
So I just contacted John Park who is a reputable luthier living a few hours away from me regarding purchasing a blanca. Among other things we talked about, he offered to sell me a guitar he made which he had been playing for the last few years. He described the sound as "50s Madrid". Unfortunately I don't have the slightest clue what this means. There are also no clips of his blancas ANYWHERE so I will almost certainly be making a trip to his shop to check out his guitars but I would really like to have at least a vague idea of what his guitars can provide before I do so.

So can anyone tell me what 50s Madrid sound is like? Can you point me in the direction of a few youtube clips maybe? I know this is a stretch but any help is appreciated.

N
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 0:23:46
 
bugeyed

 

Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Why don't you ask Mr. Park?

Cheers,
kev

_____________________________

It's not what they call you that matters,
It's what you answer to.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 1:47:12
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
John Park makes very nice guitars, in fact it was one of his guitars that inspired me to start building believe it or not. I made 8 semi-copies of that guitar before I started using my own bracing system.
I know he likes to build along the lines of Esteso-Barbero-Hernandez y Aguado.. hence '50s Madrid.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 3:30:01
 
gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
How about prices?

_____________________________

Spyros
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 9:38:10
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Here's Grisha Goryachev playing a 1950 Barbero:



Buy Park's guitar and you'll sound just like Grisha and Sabicas!

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 20:25:29
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to Andy Culpepper) 
quote:

Esteso-Barbero-Hernandez y Aguado.. hence '50s Madrid.


Sobrinos de esteso (Conde Hermanos) started making for Esteso's widow in the 1940's I think. And I think Conde sound is very different then Barbero. To say "madrid 1950's" is pretty vague. Like saying "I make guitars that sound good and old".

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2011 22:14:00
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
as yoda would say--"sound of madrid 50's ask not, play and decide you must." nenadk--a few hours drive stands between you and the answer. listen to some old sabicas and nino ricardo cd's and you will get the general idea of what that sound might be.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2011 10:00:46
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Thanks for the replies.

Of course, I am aware that trying his guitars is the best way of finding out what they sound like. But please try to understand, I have tried 2 flamenco guitars in my life: a Student Navarro and a Raimundo 145. I've spent less than 5 minutes with each of them. I know NOTHING about the differences between different guitars. Everything I think I know is based on either youtube clips which are unreliable or recordings.

I am a little anxious as I am going to spend some serious money here so I'm doing whatever I can to be as informed as I can before I even try the guitars.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Buy Park's guitar and you'll sound just like Grisha and Sabicas!

RNJ


Haha. I actually saw that clip the day I made the original post and the same thing crossed my mind. If it was only that easy. The guitar does sound amazing though. I think I like it better than his Reyes demo.

Gounaro,

Regarding prices, he did not post prices on his website and I'm assuming he has a reason for doing so. If you're interested in his guitars you should probably just contact him.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2011 20:19:16
 
cosimojack

 

Posts: 34
Joined: Dec. 15 2007
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
If you have the money, you won’t go wrong with a John Park guitar.
He's a very experienced builder who knows what he is doing.
A nice guy too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2011 16:13:45
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Cosimojack,

Do you have one of his guitars? What's your experience with them. I'm quite curious because I've never even heard of him until quite recently.

Funnily enough I live in Kelowna which apparently seems to have no flamenco scene whatsoever yet soon after I moved here I found out that John Park is an amazing builder that lives pretty close to me.

Cheers

N
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2011 18:49:32
 
cosimojack

 

Posts: 34
Joined: Dec. 15 2007
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Unfortunately, I don’t own one but I’ve played one before and it was quite nice.
I also exchanged some emails with him and he was very polite and offered me some helpful, sagely advice.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2011 18:27:11
 
bthartman

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 7 2012
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Thought I'd chime in, though this thread is a few months old at this point. I decided about a year ago to start looking for someone to build one "really nice guitar" for me after playing all kinds of music on average guitars (Gibson, Fender, Giannini, La Patrie and Alhambra). I started taking Flamenco lessons about 3 years ago.

I started looking seriously for a luthier in the Pacific NW last summer. John Park was one of the builders I was interested in, as I had played an older Flamenco Negra of his at Rosewood Guitar in Seattle. As it turned out, John was at the GAL convention and exhibit in Tacoma at the end of last July. I talked to 7 Flamenco luthiers at the public exhibit, including John, and while all the guitars were decent John's negra just blew me away. He had just finished it and put strings on it before getting in his car to drive down to Tacoma, and he was surprised at what he had done as well. I can't recall exactly what, but he had tried something new with the bracing.

The instrument was great. It had a true growl when you really dug into it, but it also mellowed out considerably if you let up on it. John played some classical as well as some jazz on it, and it just worked great for everything.

Anyway, after saving up some money I commissioned John to make a negra for me in December. The two main differences from the one he showed me was I wanted a slightly shorter scale length (640mm as opposed to 650) and with tuning machines instead of the pegs he had used (and I went back and forth for awhile about those).

Just talked with John, and my guitar should be ready around the beginning of April. He reports that it plays beautifully, and the shorter scale length really isn't compromising the sound at all.







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 7 2012 21:25:56
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Bthartman,

Thanks for the reply.

I actually ended up buying the blanca I was asking about this November. It was made for the 2006 GAL convention and he had decided it was time to part with it. When I first contacted him about the guitar I was given the impression that it was a very simple basic blanca but when I saw it, it was clearly more than that. It sounds absolutely amazing. I'm not big on aesthetics and would have bought the guitar regardless but the guitar also has a beautiful spruce top with silk.

I've tried a few other guitars while I was at his place including a negra and they were all great in their own way. However, the most amazing experience for me was playing a guitar made in 1890! It didn't sound nearly as good as the one I purchased obviously but the setup was so low that it practically played itself. Unfortunately I forgot the name of the maker.

John is also the nicest guy and an *amazing* player. He plays mostly jazz and classical as well as a bit of flamenco.

I'm happy to hear that your experience with his guitars was as good as mine.

N
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2012 3:44:51
 
bthartman

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 7 2012
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
Nenadk,

Congratulations! I'm guessing your blanca was probably the one he brought to the GAL exhibit last summer, and it was a truly amazing guitar. Did he say if the Negra you tried was the one he made last summer? If so, it had tuning pegs instead of tuners.

I decided to go with a Negra, partly because I'm anticipating wanting to play other styles on it and, all things being equal, a Negra is a little more flexible for other musical styles (of course, that's a generalization and I know there's a lot of factors involved). At any rate, when I played the Negra it just blew me away.

I'm really looking forward to making the trek up there in a month or so to pick up my guitar. John is a super guy and I'm expecting to have a great time in his shop. (He also mentioned that if I get there by 6 on Friday they have a fish bake on the beach).

Enjoy your new Blanca!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2012 4:24:57
 
NenadK

Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
I'm pretty sure that the negra I tried was not the one that you tried at GAL. This one had machine tuners. I also think he brought my blanca to every GAL since 2006 so you probably did hear it.

I hear negras are generally more flexible but I don't play anything other than flamenco anyway and I wanted a more traditional sound. I'm very bad at describing sound so all I can say is that the guitar sounds very "big". When you dig in, the sound really fills the room. It's kind of hard to explain..

I hope your negra ends up being everything you expected and more!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2012 21:27:19
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to NenadK) 
So you are beginner and only played a raimundo and a navaroo till now.

3000 Euros should be the max price to be paid to a more or less "unknown" builders, remember if you somehow shouldn't like the guitar after a while and want to sell it, you will lose a lot of money. I don't understand these builders asking 6000 - 10000 euros.

Second, too much "growl" is very bad. Don't be fooled with the first impression of such guitars. You can't play good Rasgueados with such guitars. It sounds like a mess. Also it shouldn't have too much overtones or whatever you want to call that. Should be dry with good seperation of tones. strong mids and balanced out. Specially if its negra. That would be a guitar you would want to play more than 1 -2 year. If you are a beginner , take someone experienced with you and let him play Rasguedos all the time and check out how it sounds.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2012 6:14:07
 
bthartman

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 7 2012
 

RE: Guitar with a 50s Madrid Sound?? (in reply to Arash) 
My vocabulary is still catching up with my playing. When I stated that John's Negra had a "growl" when I dug into it, I meant that it had some bite and wasn't tame sounding. Overall it has a great balance between the basses and trebles (which is where my Alhambra 7FC is lacking).

John is actually a pretty well known luthier and is an accomplished player in his own right. He has some clips of David Franzen playing one of his Blancas in concert. (http://johnparkguitars.com/press/).

His prices are in dollars (Canadian and US are pretty much the same right now).

His base price for a blanca is $4500, $5000 for a Negra and $5500 for a classical.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2012 21:27:28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.078125 secs.