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I've just been re-discovering Manolo Sanlucar's work - and he is quite an extraordinary musician - I'm fascinated by how he evolved as a musician between Al Viento (which is filled with slightly lame playing and production - it hasn't aged well) to the timeless beauty of Tauromagia. Any one know what happened to him during that time? I mean in a space of just five or six years, his playing completely changed...
What happened!?!?
Also, I've been trying to get hold of Medea by Manolo Sanlucar for a while now – unfortunately it's out of print, out of stock and there doesn't seem to be any intention on behalf of the record label to re-release it. It's not even available as a download on itunes (you'd think that would be easy enough for the record company to do!)
This is a fairly recent release, why is Manolo Sanlucar's back catalogue treated so badly?
In fact his label doesn't really give him the representation he deserves. His recent books have only been released in spanish as is his website. They're not even trying to reach a wider global audience by making multi-lingual or translated copies available. I think he is one musician that deserves it...
Anyway, any ideas where I can get hold of Medea? Download or CD - i don't mind...
Here are some ideas, although you might already know most or all of them. Manolo was hit really hard by the death of his son. I'm not sure if it happened in the period you're looking at, but it just about broke him in two and things haven't been easy for him since then. His father's death also shook him up pretty bad, although the two events can't really be compared. I wouldn't normally mention any of this, but he talks about these things openly in his book "El alma compartida." Not surprising that it hasn't been translated as that requires investment, and, although it's a very interesting book, its sales are going to be limited; even more so in the case of a translation.
About "Al Viento" and lame playing, have you heard that first album "Recital flamenco"? I like it a lot better than Mundo y Formas, and it's obviously got nothing to do with his incursion in pop music (Caballo negro, etc.)
About his back catalog not being well promoted, I think it's standard treatment in the Spanish recording industry, at least until recent times. It might have a lot to do with the transition in recording technologies (vinyl, etc.) I haven't had a look in a long time, but nearly every guitarist (except Paco, of course) has solo recordings that you'll hear about or see in photos but never actually find. Cepero, Parrilla, Moraíto, Riqueni, Quique Paredes, Paco del Gastor, Manolo Franco... Even great singers like Mairena, Chocolate, Pansequito (to name just a few) have recordings that have been unavailable for a long time. Manolo recorded with La Paquera, Terremoto, Manuel Agujetas, and others (including La Niña de los Peines!!!), and most of those recordings are very hard or impossible to find.
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to NormanKliman)
Thanks Norman for taking the time to respond, Norman – that was really interesting.
I have "Recital flamenco" fantastic stuff! I always admired the intention behind Mundo y Formas trilogy but always preferred the first album...
However, that transition between his 70's and early 80's recrdings (Sanlucar, Candela, Al viento) to Tauromagia and Locura de Brisa Y Triono is pretty staggering. On these two album's he sounds like an entirely different musician - the ideas, the technique, the maturity, the depth, cultural and emotional resonance, the dignity of phrasing – it really is inspiring to hear.
You're right about the treatment of recordings in Spain - it seems a cultural travesty to be sitting on such a wealth beautiful music and not give it the care and preservation it deserves...
I wold love to read his biography, but my spanish isn't so good right now...maybe i'll just have to brush up!
Apart from Medea (which, again, if anyone can point me in the right direction of getting hold of a copy i'd be hugely grateful!) have I missed out on any other of Manolo's "second period" recordings?
Medea is a strange album, The cover photo is also very strange. I listened to it for a while but didn't feel i could relate to it very well.
Al Viento is one of the albums that got me into flamenco actually. Sure there are some cheesy sounds. The way he plays the buleria "Mezquita" is amazing. One of my favorite bulerias of all time.
Yes, I think "lame playing" was a little hard of me! Obviously, anything he's released is well worth a listen - and about Mezquita - you're absolutely right! I just took another listen (hadn't heard it in a while) his playing on Mezquita is very cool indeed!
that transition between his 70's and early 80's recrdings (Sanlucar, Candela, Al viento) to Tauromagia and Locura de Brisa Y Triono is pretty staggering.
This was a period of great experimentation and innovation in the history of Flamenco guitar. It wasnt just Manolo Sanlucars "Tauromagia" but Rafael Riquienis "Juego de Niños", Tomatitos "Barrio negro" and Gerardo Nuñezs "el Gallo Azul" too. So what was the catalyst for this change in musical direction? Clearly it was the influence of recordings such as Sirroco and solo quiero caminar. Those records changed Flamenco guitar playing in terms of harmony and composition. Guys like manolo sanlucar either had to evolve to keep up or quit and there were many players who did actually leave the professional scene during that period for exactly that reason. Its hard to imagine now because its like trying to imagine guitar playing before Hendrix. When Paco was coming out with those recordings it changed the way everyone thought about guitar playing. I dont want to turn this into another Paco thread but i really do see his influence in Flamenco as being the strongest at this time. Tauromagia is a masterpiece but who knows if Manolo would have gone in this direction without Pacos influence!
Honestly I feel the evolution for Manolo was sort of natural, not necessarily influenced by Paco specifically. For example Manolo learned some about orchestration in the time you talk about, and also discovered more about modes. His Caballo negro was specifically a mixolydian vamp for example, and he makes use of Ionian and Lydian a lot on Tauromagia, and later in Locura some Dorian and Mixolydian ideas. Of course Paco was an inspiriation for searching for new ideas, and their work together tells alot about how close their ideas meshed.
Medea was a stepping stone for sure, you can hear some rehashing of themes ideas and melodies in the video Mariana Pineda of Sara Baras. I actually prefer that to Medea, and like I said some of the exact same themes. That music almost bridges Tauromagia before and after.
There is a documentary called "Tesoros de la guitarra flamenca" I think, you have seen many clips on youtube. It covers the basic flow of Sanlucar's career starting with older traditional material. Composing duets with his brother you hear the direction his orchestration ideas were headed, then you see an actual concierto bulerias with orchestra. The Rondeña clearly shows how he was evolving towards Tauromagia as that piece is so close to Oracion in terms of its "aire" and general direction. In fact live concerts before Tauromagia came out included THAT Rondeña followed by Tercio de Vara.
Hope you get a chance to see that full documentary. Also I have a clip of this buleria trio on youtube with Vicente and Isidro that was from that middle period I believe.
For the record I think his son died after Tauromagia, but I think he was ill of cancer, it could have been a problem for manolo for a while, the fact his son was ill. But again I feel his playing was always evolving anyway since early 80's.
Yeah, I didn't check to see exactly when he lost his son, and of course he's always been evolving, as you say. As you and Mark are saying, his interest in music is what's driven the course of his career, that's obvious. There are a lot of pages in that book, though, that make it clear that he went right over the edge for a while. There are some parts that are absolute gibberish, like when you're laid up in bed with a fever and you have strange dreams that don't make any sense. It's not very pleasant reading, and it's limited to just a few consecutive pages, but I think he put them in there as a way of expressing in literary terms what it's like to go crazy. It's just a small part of the book; the rest is very coherent and articulate.
You guys are probably going to kick me outta here (or probably just yawn and look at the next post, ha-ha), but his only recording that I really like is "Recital." Not a matter of principle or anything, I just prefer the power and clarity of that first recording. The other stuff I've heard is brilliant of course, but not my cup of tea. Like other modern stuff, it sounds like he's making a conscious effort to break away from traditional playing, like ultra-modern cooking or something. Innovation is necessary, but I prefer it in smaller steps. I'm not looking to pick a fight here, but the concept of "antithesis" works in all kinds of genres but has nothing to do with flamenco, IMO.
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to NormanKliman)
Norman, Obviously everyone has their own tastes and it is not something they can control, and I could see what you mean with the Medea and Locura de Brisa stuff. But don't you really dig some of that stuff on Tauromagia? I like Manolo a lot, but he is not my all time favorite guitarist, but in terms of flamenco guitar CD's Tauromagia is my all time favorite. And because of how much I like it, I am still always amazed when someone says I don't really like Tauromagia that much.
I actually generally like Jerez older School stuff guitarists used in accompanying the most. I am awaiting your Bulerias Transcriptions and specifically eager to start looking at the 36 Manuel Morao and 20 Paco Cepero Falsetas used in their accompaniment work.
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From: Washington DC
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to NormanKliman)
Manolo is truly a "composer", unlike many other flamenco guitarists that are more improvisers. What I mean is, you could have seen Manolo play Tauromagia in a concert note for note from first to last in order, nothing different, even the cante the same. And again the cante he made as far I as I know, and the unique accompaniments for it don't change either. That is very different then the typical flamenco way, so I can understand why some folks that are aficionados might not be into his stuff, it seems a very "payo" way to do flamenco, for lack of a better word.
I will say that his genius as a composer sets him apart from many other guitarists however. I mean, singers nowadays will use estribillos and cante directly from Tauromagia, so in a way it has become "traditional" and up for interpretion by other flamencos, and that has not been done too often since the old days when each singer was a composer.
In terms of guitar solo, I think his playing has more clearity then when he was young, but it is also far removed from the traditional forms. I feel the weakness of his improv always showed in the way he accompanied cante....vs most of his peers. Sorry to say that if it offends anyone, but even I saw him in 2007 messing up bulerias in juerga with moraito right next to him. On old cante albums as Norman mentioned, I felt he leads the singers too much in things free like fandango, he is there before them or right with them, which is really not the way IMO.
But after all, I admit Tauromagia is maybe my favorite too. Compositional genius all around, and though NOTHING is traditional on it, it is still very "flamenco" for me.
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to chapman_g)
Hi Michael,
quote:
But don't you really dig some of that stuff on Tauromagia?
Yeah of course, but not for the guitar. Manolo's the most brilliant "scientist" of all guitarists, and I mean that as the highest possible praise. I'm referring to his right hand. It's perfect, like an animal crossed with a machine! But he took that as far it will take a guitarist, and everything he's done beyond that point doesn't excite me all that much. I'll be among the first to point out how sophisticated it is and how it's based on traditional Spanish music, but it's just not as exciting for me as Marote or Parrilla, for example.
I know I'm being closed minded about this (ask me tomorrow and I might say that I'm not ) because lots of guys who I respect (not just Ricardo and others on this forum) like that kind of playing. For me, real flamenco is always going to be whatever it is that kids in Spain want to do with it, provided that it stays on the scene for a number of years. For example, I've never liked the whiny Camarón imitators, but that's part of cante now, just like everyone picked up on Pepe Marchena for a while, or Caracol. Doesn't mean I have to like it, but if everyone else does, there must be something good about it.
I've been trying to get hold of Medea by Manolo Sanlucar for a while now – unfortunately it's out of print, out of stock and there doesn't seem to be any intention on behalf of the record label to re-release it. It's not even available as a download on itunes (you'd think that would be easy enough for the record company to do!)
did you find it?
does anyone else have it?
i was just talking to a dancer who was raving about it - would like to get her a copy if anyone has it or can point me in the direction of a link to it - i tried amazon and 7digital for mp3 download but no joy so far.
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to mark indigo)
Yes I managed to get a CD - although it took a fair bit of searching! I notice that deflamenco.com has it in stock at the moment, so you could try there.
But after all, I admit Tauromagia is maybe my favorite too. Compositional genius all around, and though NOTHING is traditional on it, it is still very "flamenco" for me.
I'm in absolute agreement with you, it is one of the most perfect recordings and my favorite flamenco recording.
Medea, In my opinion is the greatest orchestral work composed for the guitar since Rodrigo's Concerto For Aranjuez, and in due time will be recognized as such. I cannot believe that it has not yet been interpreted and recorded by a classical guitarist. If a classical guitarist such as John Williams recorded Medea, and brought it to the attention of the classical world, I have no doubt that it would be accepted with overwhelming joy by an audience that has no understanding of flamenco, and would make Manolo Sanlucar a household name in the classical world. In time, just watch and see the many recordings and performances of Medea performed by classical guitarist will be on the Itunes and collections of listeners outside the flamenco world.
I cannot believe that it has not yet been interpreted and recorded by a classical guitarist. If a classical guitarist such as John Williams recorded Medea, and
I doubt there is a proper score that includes the true guitar part as most conciertos have. I will restate, Mariana Pindeda has a lot of the same material and is BETTER as a composition in all respects, and I think Sanlucar would agree since he "beefed it up" and "refined" the orginal ideas so to speak. Thing is, it was recorded on video by PDL's nephew, Jose Maria Bandera. If any of you guys studied Manolo's falsetas at all, you can tell that Jose really went for details and nuances of Manolo's toque. Just like when he plays with his uncle he actually sounds like Paco, again interpreting Manolo's music he really sounds just like Manolo to me in terms of expression. The entire "ballet" is carried by that guitar part more then the ochestra as a proper concierto is usually done.
And I know for a fact that jose learned the entire thing BY EAR, and I also know that Manolo did not score out any of tauromagia in terms of guitar, so my guess is that there is not guitar part available in print for medea nor Pineda. So no score, no classical guy is gonna sit down and transcribe that mess I think!
It has been played by a Classical Guitarist. Manuel Barrueco told me he got the score from Manolo and told me the name and place and orchestra he played it with sometime in 2009 but I can't remember the details. Anyway Manuel Barrueco said he absolutely fell in love with the music Medea, and at the Cordoba Festival in 2007 he got it from Manolo. Barrueco told me he thinks it is one of the greatest works written for guitar and orchestra, and that he wished he could play it more, but an orchestra and conductor has to want to do it, and nobody really knows it. He also told me there are a lot of differences between the score Manolo gave him and the recording that he gave him.
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to chapman_g)
With Manolo Sanlúcar in Córdoba, Spain August 09, 2009 Manuel Barrueco will be performing his version of Manolo Sanlúcar's "Medea" for guitar and orchestra, this fall. This photo is taken in Córdoba this past July, where they discussed the new version and gave the few diners at the local café a private concert!http://www.barrueco.com/content_images/10/Sanlucar_Barrueco.jpg
Thanks Chapman for the information, the above is taken from Manuel Barrueco's website.
Sara Baras DVD PAL Format only. The music is Manolo's with Jose Maria Bandera playing live with strings, winds etc, accompanying. You don't see Jose much it is a dance presentation DVD, but you hear the Music, and I have not seen an audio only recording. Some similarities to Medea but I would not say it is an updated version or adaptation of Medea it is different, but there are some themes familiar to both. I actually think I prefer Medea, maybe it is because if I am just listening to this kind of beautiful music I don't need to hear all the taconeo on the dance DVD.
Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Manolo Sanlucar's Medea (in reply to chapman_g)
quote:
Some similarities to Medea but I would not say it is an updated version or adaptation of Medea it is different, but there are some themes familiar to both. I actually think I prefer Medea, maybe it is because if I am just listening to this kind of beautiful music I don't need to hear all the taconeo on the dance DVD.
well I sat down today and took a more detailed listen to both. You are totally right they are not the same at all. I think my ear was biased years ago after first seeing Sara perform it live and a prominent local flamenco told me it was the exact same as medea (which at the time I had not heard at all). But he has a similar idea of themes but nothing actually identical. Medea uses the ochestra much more in Medea, and Mariana is much more driven by guitar and has more flamenco compas and themes and even cante sections. I have to say after a more careful listen I really prefer Mariana Pineda, foot work or not, as it has more variety of moods and feel and the driving flamenco compas.
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