Hi, please help with guitar choice...

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Odie

Posts: 6
Joined: Oct. 17 2010

Hi, please help with guitar choice...

Hi all,
I am a new user here - so I'll give to give you some background and introduce myself first :)

I live in Poland and started playing classical guitar about 3 years ago.
I am an amateur player, not good on my guitar but am trying hard to improve

Recently I found that classical music is not to my taste - I actually much prefer solo arrangements of pop / rock / celtic / jazz / latin (bossa, rumba, samba) music. So generally speaking - fingerstyle music with percussion elements.
Flamenco (easier pieces) is also on my list to try sometime in the future.
Thing is - I like playing it on my nylon strung TP-30 CG.

But recently I started thinking that the CG as I have it now is not really suited to what I play and want to play.

So I started thinking how to make it easier fro me to play and came up with the following options:
1. Take my CG guitar to the luthier and have he action lowered or
2. Buy a flamenco negra guitar, which as I read on the net is well suited for such "crossover" playing and lots of people start using for that purpose.

What do you think?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2010 19:31:43

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

quote:

1. Take my CG guitar to the luthier and have he action lowered or
2. Buy a flamenco negra guitar, which as I read on the net is well suited for such "crossover" playing and lots of people start using for that purpose.

What do you think?

Odie,

Welcome.

It's not just the guitar you have to consider.

Flamenco is played with a completely different hand position and general technique and"philosophy" that Classical.

If you are just playing around for fun, then I'd say just get a Luthier to lower the action a bit on your Classical and fit a tap plate, but it won't be a proper Flamenco guitar or Classical guitar.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2010 19:42:58

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

quote:

Take my CG guitar to the luthier and have he action lowered

Hell NO !!

quote:

Buy a flamenco negra guitar, which as I read on the net is well suited for such "crossover" playing and lots of people start using for that purpose.

Hell Yess !!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2010 19:49:00

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

I understand you want to stay with nylon strings.
What is it you don't like about playing with a classical guitar? What do you expect a flamenco would give you more of?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2010 21:11:49

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

Honestly if you are going to do flamenco, get a blanca. You will be pleased how it sounds for every other style too.

I prefer to play bach on a blanca, and virtually everything else. I have a degree in classical guitar and it was never a problem for me to switch between flamenco and classical or blend both.

Fear not! you will be fine. I'd snag a blanca. Negra's are okay but realistically the back is pretty irrelevant.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2010 23:22:21

Guest

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

quote:

I prefer to play bach on a blanca, and virtually everything else.

agree with that
owned a variety of classical guitars over the years..[traditional to lattice braced]
but
all i play now is my ramirez blanca
all styles, other than flamenco... great for samba/choro/bossa nova/jazz/world/pop...classical [especially early music etc]..
enjoy

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 7:18:40

Odie

Posts: 6
Joined: Oct. 17 2010

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

Thanks for the replies.

Now - what I do not like about my CG (cedar top)?
1. Note separation - when I play fast passages, sometimes it sounds like a "wall of sound" , quite muddy (I think that is the right word for that) and not distinct. Especially when you need to repeatedly play stack of notes.
2. Action height - It is abt 4mm @12th fret - it makes playing in higher positions less comfortable. When I play fast, I have problems with clean fretting etc.

What I DO like though is the tone - which is perfect for slow, romantic pieces and yes, then the CG shines :)

So what I am looking for in a flameco guitar:
1. Somewhat brighter tone + better notes separation
2. Lower action that will make it easier for playing fast pieces

Just curious: why do you say that blanca is better than negra? I thought that negras have similar sound to classicals only that it is slightly brighter and there is less sustain?
Anything else I might be missing?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 11:14:32

gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

Odie,

It's prefferable to get a blanca.

You wont be dissapointed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 11:37:11

Guest

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

first thing i noticed was ease of expression...or freedom of...it just felt so great, a relief to find this tone
after years of cedar/rosewood classicals or hybrids..
the blanca was really sensitive to vibrato/glissando and cleaner picado's. a sizzling singing bass..singing mid range tone without the muddiness of a classical guitar...total but pleasing extreme...my thumb had a field day..let loose!
and the snap when you strum/strike the strings

a weird type of seduction...

a thought on all this for you is if you buy a flamenco is to look carefully at the action at the bridge/soundboard as well as 12th fret...
to me this means alot as a player now and is'nt always apparent in entry level - mid guitars...so to a luthier you may need to go!

nothing against negra's by the way...
others here may have both and offer a more practical view!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 12:34:16

gbv1158

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

Odie,
I have a little experience in clasical guitar and last hear I bought a flamenco blanca
(Luthier- Anders Eliason); well if you truly are interested in flamenco I belive it is definetly a blanca the instrument that better makes you clear that you are facing a different musical world.
Thii is in my modest experience.

good luck!

ciao, Giambattista

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 12:40:55

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Guest)

Looks like you should keep your classical, and I would agree that you should get a blanca for your non classical pieces, seems to me it would have the tonal qualities you are looking for, brighter, less sustain.

As for you comment on the negras having less sustain than the classical, that depends but the blanca will have even less.

You should try both and play your fast pieces on them and choose by sound regardless of color.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 13:26:49

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

i never said it was better. I just said that I like them better.

If you learn one thing from this, take away from it that the only real difference between a classical and a flamenco is who is playing it. The rest is semantics and bs.

Torres built guitars with 2.5 mm action with cypress back and sides, and with rosewood, and with cherry and maple. they were just guitars. neither flamenco or classical.

So, blanca for flamenco only...No. If you buy a guitar, just buy what you like. It will sound good no matter what you play on it. Screw what it's called, flamenca classica irrelevant.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2010 19:33:06

Odie

Posts: 6
Joined: Oct. 17 2010

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

Um, true - apologies for twisting your words :)
I am not a native speaker, so sometimes I misinterpret things.

Anyways - yeah, it's all subjective.
Problem is that where I live (Poland) there are not many options to try all the guitars I might fancy.
last week I made a tour of the 3 shops that we have in my city and there was virtually NOTHING of interest, or all the instruments they proposed sounded much worse than my current guitar. So I need to rely on internet and theoretical discussions.

However, if all goes well within a few weeks I might be able to go to Canada / US - so I will visit the shops there and see what they have :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2010 11:30:31

Guest

RE: Hi, please help with guitar choi... (in reply to Odie)

quote:

there are not many options to try all the guitars I might fancy.

you and me
i live in australia

but
i had some great advice here
along with a couple of members who also live where i am
bought a lot of guitars before i felt the right one was in my hands
it happens to be a blanca... it took a good deal of time.

but only you can decide what is right for you
play your guitar if it suits you now
but spend time here and luthier/dealer websites..any friends in poland??..here we have to travel 5 hours in a plane to go to another country...poland is close to many other countries. Shops within Europe. Close to Spain. etc

get a feel for good instruments in your price range because they are out there.

you can play any music on any guitar

...then you fine tune what you want from the instrument...ongoing upgrade until you find the 'sound'.

quote:

blanca for flamenco only

can be used for any music....A list of Conde owners for example will range from Paco de Lucia to Lenny Kraviz to Al DiMeola
Ramirez owners from Tomatito to Laurindo Almeida to the Beatles
Classical Guitarists dont use them....ie blanca's.
Sometimes i wish they would...

Just try to play as many guitars before you spend money...you will know.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2010 12:43:18