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What defines Cañorotto style - I can only see (<-- no expert) a focus on technical fluency, speed, accuracy and agression. Am I missing something ?
I can see how this style suits bulerias, but Fandangos de Huelva ? Doesn't something of the essence of FDh get lost ? eg. does FDh really benefit from such a sharp attack on the picado ?
Thanks for the videos.. this is great stuff to listen to and discuss.
Posts: 4530
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Canorotto Bulerias Duo (in reply to flybynight)
Cano Roto is gypsy part of a district of madrid.
El Viejin Jesus de Rosario Ramon Jimenez El Entri David Cerreduela Jeronimo Maya
etc.
All these guys are from that area.
What exactly is Cano Roto school? I don't know.
Some modern concepts, jazzy chords, some innovative technical details maybe, harmonics, altered tunings, etc. But actually its kind of a mix of many different styles and music ideas imo and i am not sure if they developed any new revolutionary concept like Paco. Seams to me like they got influenced by others (paco, tomatito, gerardo, etc.) and added some of their own distinctive style characteristics.
Acc. El Viejin, it all started with his uncle Nani which he then developed to Cano Roto school.
Well, they love bulerias, tangos, Rondena - if you compare the number of palos they mostly play.
Fandangos de Huelva is not their no.1 favourite palo obviously.
RE: Canorotto Bulerias Duo (in reply to flybynight)
Another characteristic of the Caño Roto school is the focus on polyphony, although nowadays everyone plays that way. In the 1970s, the idea of polyphony contrasted with the old-school "cuerda pelá" approach to the guitar.
quote:
Seams to me like they got influenced by others (paco, tomatito, gerardo, etc.) and added some of their own distinctive style characteristics.
I think it's the other way around and, for a number of years, El Nani was influencing the other players. It's pretty well-known that Paco based some of his early falsetas on El Nani's ideas.
RE: Canorotto Bulerias Duo (in reply to NormanKliman)
quote:
What defines Cañorotto style - I can only see (<-- no expert) a focus on technical fluency, speed, accuracy and agression. Am I missing something ?
it's just modern flamenco isn't it? That's the way I hear it. But maybe as the later post from Norman shows, the players from this area and scene helped to influence create the modern evolution...
quote:
I can see how this style suits bulerias, but Fandangos de Huelva ? Doesn't something of the essence of FDh get lost ? eg. does FDh really benefit from such a sharp attack on the picado ?
what about PDL FDH like Aires Choqueros, or even the one he recorded before Punta Umbria, or the later ones Castro Marin and Montiño?
quote:
El Nani was influencing the other players
don't forget what Enrique De Melchor said about El Nani;
"When my father worked at "Los Canasteros" there was a guy there that played really well, called "El Nani". We all knew him. When I saw him I was really impressed with his playing. He asked me, "Aren't you going to play like your father?". I just played a little, practically nothing. So I said, "I don't know. I'm studying." So he showed me a falseta and I was hooked."
also that not long after Enrique toured with Paco;
"I was at Los Canasteros, and I used to study a lot. I remember one night Paco de Lucía came by and liked my playing. He was just starting out back then, working around Europe, and he was also very young. He suggested doing concerts together, and I learned a lot with him. We spent a year traveling all over the world, I learned a lot."
Posts: 15824
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Canorotto Bulerias Duo (in reply to mark indigo)
In Rito you can see melchor and Enrique together. Enrique was just a kid, teenager, Paco was was well established and his style solid. Enrique was obviously copying Paco's style by that time. The cañoroto style seems, despite its origins, to mainly be extension of Paco and tomatito school or style. Most of those guys play note for note paco pieces too. And you see viejin in his documentary talking about how he cried listening to Paco. It is clear to me where the influence comes from.
ok found in youtube - without subtitles though - (but BUY it Deniz )
rest you will find on youtube.
Ricardo, wasn't that R. Riqueni who said that he cried while listening to a piece from Paco ? I am not sure, have to watch the Docu again. But i don't remember El Viejin saying that, anyway...
In Rito you can see melchor and Enrique together. Enrique was just a kid, teenager, Paco was was well established and his style solid. Enrique was obviously copying Paco's style by that time.
What date is the rito vid?
Enrique De Melchor was born in 1951, Paco in 1947, so Paco is only 4 years older than Enrique.
Enrique says in the interview/article that he was about 15 at the time he met El Nani, so that would have been about 1966. This was before he played alongside Paco, so it's likely that El Nani influenced Enrique in some way, however small, before Paco influenced Enrique, and it is possible that Enrique passed on to Paco anything he got from Nani.
The influence of PDL on pretty much everyone is immense and possibly unquantifiable, but i don't think that makes him the "only innovator in the flamenco guitar", or the only influence on the Cañoroto guys. Paco must have been absorbing influences like a sponge from anyone and everyone around him back in the sixties, and wasn't Paco himself influenced by the Gerardo/Riqueni/Manolo Franco generation?
RE: Canorotto Bulerias Duo (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo The influence of PDL on pretty much everyone is immense and possibly unquantifiable
Maybe its easier to spot somebody who is NOT influenced by PdL, or at least less than the average. Paco is great but these cano roto guys took it further than him regarding composition. At least their compas variations are waaaay cooler than Paco's IMO.
ORIGINAL: Ron.M Is playing as many notes as you can in a piece with the weirdest chords you can think of cool these days in Flamenco?
Well, may be. Something that i find cool can bore you to death as something "weird". Thats the old friend: taste. I cant really describe it, but their compositions play more with the compas, much more compas jokes, odd beats, and i dont know what when it comes to falsetas. When it comes to strummings (i called them compas variations) they have some ultra cool, i mean like ULTRA COOL patterns, which i dont hear in anybody others playing (Tomatito comes close maybe).
When i say composition i dont mean having a fully structured piece from beginning to end. I only mean if you compare one falseta of Paco's with theirs and see whats characteristic of each.
This video from 0:53 to 1:43... if thats not ultra cool then i dont know
This video from 0:53 to 1:43... if thats not ultra cool then i dont know
Yeah Deniz,
That guy IS cool there...but that's not "new". It's a mix of old style with some old Niño Josele thrown in IMO.
What I was referring to mainly was that "Bulerias Duo", which frankly to me is like two kids seeing who can do the coolest skateboard moves.
PS: People from the rough Housing Estates here in the UK are famed for keeping large, fierce, attack dogs...so.. Do people from the Caño Roto keep Caño Rottweilers?
What on Earth is this? Super-human technique! The picados between 3:42 and 3:58 are just wow!
PS: Excuse my ignorance, but those RED guitars: are they painted or is the wood naturally that color?
Not superhuman but being taught by El Entri! I believe the player with the very fast picado is another of El Entri's sons.
The red guitar (A Sanchis Lopez, probably 1f) is cypress, the nitrolacquer is coloured. Orange condes get their colour in the same way.
I too really admire the caño roto style. On the whole I think they have managed to get advanced technically and harmonically but still retain serious flamenco duende.
Is playing as many notes as you can in a piece with the weirdest chords you can think of cool these days in Flamenco?
yes. its all about playing as many notes and chords and as fast as possible. its all about showing off. these guys just play to show off and want to be cool. this is modern flamenco, very simple.
What I was referring to mainly was that "Bulerias Duo", which frankly to me is like two kids seeing who can do the coolest skateboard moves.
I agree but don't forget that they are both just teenagers, having fun playing for each other in the living room.
I think the other more publc 'performance' upload shows these both to be very musical and flamenco players and not being technical just for it's own sake.
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