Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias

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Neotriz

Posts: 143
Joined: Aug. 9 2010

Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias

Hi guys

I was wondering what beat Tomatito starts in this video (4:05):

I can't figure it out!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2010 23:37:55

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1896
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to Neotriz)

he starts on 9,5 :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 15 2010 23:54:36

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to Neotriz)

I think it's important to note that they are all trying to get in time with each other at the start. Nobody is perfect, and jumping inside of fast palmas perfectly in time is not easy, even for tomatito.

Look for another version of him playing the same falseta at a slower tempo to get the feel of it. IMO this video is not the best one to learn that falseta. It is a little bit wobbly at the start and would be very confusing to learn from.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2010 8:12:05

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to KMMI77)

here is the falseta

http://www.moderntoque.com/pages/image000.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2010 11:46:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to KMMI77)

i think he plays the same falseta on the Duquende & Tomatito cd

i haven't listened to it for ages, but i think it's one of the bulerias on there

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 16 2010 21:06:37

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to KMMI77)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

I think it's important to note that they are all trying to get in time with each other at the start. Nobody is perfect, and jumping inside of fast palmas perfectly in time is not easy, even for tomatito.

Look for another version of him playing the same falseta at a slower tempo to get the feel of it. IMO this video is not the best one to learn that falseta. It is a little bit wobbly at the start and would be very confusing to learn from.

Wobbly my butt. That is tight as ****. They are all right on. Problem is the video is not synched up perfect, but the palmas and guitar are locked in from the first note.

Also the feeling is in 6's so you can say the start is after 9 (or before 10 is more appropriate if you feel it that way cuz 10 is and emphasis), OR you can say it starts after 3 as the palmas accent that beat as well in the 6's pattern. Feeling it both ways is a good idea for practice.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2010 18:34:53

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to Neotriz)

quote:

Wobbly my butt. That is tight as ****. They are all right on. Problem is the video is not synched up perfect, but the palmas and guitar are locked in from the first note.

This type of falseta is kind of floaty within the rhythm so of coarse you can try to exactly reproduce what tomatito plays here and it would be fine. My point is that i have heard tomatito play this falseta with a tighter, more defined pulse in some other recordings. This particular take of the falseta doesn't define it as well IMO, To my ear anyway. Perhaps wobbly was the wrong choice of word. Sorry Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 20 2010 21:06:39

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to Neotriz)

I like the grit sound of Duquende to listen to rather than the screach sound of Potito but I understand that in Gypsy circles, Potito is ranked very highly and Duquende is not.
Does anyone know anything about this?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2010 11:47:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Carlos Saura--Tomatito's Bulerias (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer

I like the grit sound of Duquende to listen to rather than the screach sound of Potito but I understand that in Gypsy circles, Potito is ranked very highly and Duquende is not.
Does anyone know anything about this?

No, both are high regarded IMO and experience. Potito has more his own style at least por bulerias, where as Duquende more of a copy of camaron. Both are considered Camaroneros however. One thing to keep in mind, Potito is andaluz and Duquende is from Barcelona.

About tomatito having "floating" rhythm, I dont' agree. His falseta is highly sophisticated and synchopated, but I don't think you can get tighter then what he does in that movie. But we can argue about this forever, so let me just say he plays the same falseta in the Encuentro vid intro that you can see is exact the same. I think it is actually more clear to learn against palmas then the table knocking, but either way he is very tight with the compas.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 21 2010 15:34:42