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I have decided to learn foot tapping for bulerias like below: 1(2)(3)4(5)(6)1(2)(3)4(5)(6).
the problem is that I have to learn tapping for every piece especially if the piece is complex rythmicaly. I guess it will come natural after a while. any thoughts?
when I was taking lessons I was instructed to tap: (12)1(2)3(4)5(6)7(8)9(10)11... and I guess it is a logical and easy way to go, but the pattern I described before is used by Paco de Lucia and it looks like it is very rewarding too. I am a little frustrated to have to study especially for the tapping but people say tapping in 3's is the right way.
One great thing about that rhythm is that it is bullet proof for any bulerias. However it is very difficult and tiring to keep your foot doing that for any length of time unless you are very used to it.
You actually don't have to TAP your foot physically, just keep that rhythm in your HEAD.
Most guitarists just tap the even beats 2,4,6,8,10,12...or 3,6,9,12 depending on the phrasing.. if they even bother to tap at all..(since there are palmeros or dancers or other percussion.
This subject has been flogged to death several times before on the Forum if you care to do a search.
ORIGINAL: Ron.M (since there are palmeros or dancers or other percussion.
Id say if the percussions are not so good then it can be especially important to tap foot so they can sync with your playing. And also vice versa, if you think you are getting lost with the group you can use your feet to get in sync again, or if its getting loud and you dont hear yourself. Of course this may not be needed if one is high skilled, but in that case one would know already when to tap or not and which pattern fits where.
That (1), (2) tapping is very "special" and not much used these days. I think back in the day it worked well, because bulerias was played fast. Today one would have problems to find a piece where it fits i guess.
I find it hard to do that foot tapping and playing at the same time. I still practice this. It needs work. I started very late with foot tapping. At the moment i play better without foot tapping at all, to be honest. But imo it helps your overall rythm feel in all occasions (with others, alone, etc.)
I often have to control myself during more delicate moments and not piss off the singer or dancer with my foot stomping away. I sometimes perform barefoot for this reason.
There's more than one kind of feeling in bulerias so I find it useful to have a few different kinds of tapping to create the right swing.
Paco had been listening to this rhythm all his life. It's the only Bulerias rhythm that contains 2's and 3's both at the same time and will support short or extra sixes and supplements the bouncy "aire". That's why it's bullet proof and you won't get caught out or suddenly have to change from thinking 2's to 3's. That's why the Andaluces will naturally clap this rhythm the moment you start to play Bulerias and they don't know what falsetas you are going to play.
They teach 12, 3, 7,8, 10 etc in beginner's classes as a teaching aid only.
The pattern is 5 straight beats, starts either at 12 or 1. Its bullet proof because one beat more to the cycle and it would mean clapping every beat. But thats NOT the "Paco foot tapping" ie 1 2 x 1 2 x 1 2 x 1 2, which the threadstarter mentioned. So maybe a big misunderstanding here Ron?
This is the BASIC Bulerias rhythm in Andalucia. (not "special")
(Maybe in other countries it's 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 etc...I really wouldn't know. )
Also, if anyone has a problem with this fundamental 1,2 * 1,2 rhythm "fitting" their Bulerias, perhaps they might like to have a rethink on their Bulerias.
ORIGINAL: Ron.M The 3rd beat is just sounded, not silent.
It's still 1,2 * 1,2 * 1,2 * 1,2...
Are you referring to the foot tapping of Paco de Lucia in the Almoraima video that Pablito posted as his "fav foot tapping" ie the pattern in the first post of asfalios on this page?
I'm referring to the La Plazuela video AND the Almoraima video.
They are both the same 1,2*1,2* rhythm.
The only unusual thing is that Paco taps his foot this way all the way through Almoraima. Nobody really does that, 'cos it's too awkward to co-ordinate physically when playing falsetas.
But that is the basic, natural Bulerias rhythm.
Check how Emilio Maya just naturally goes into 1,2*1,2,* when just playing around with Anders' guitar (at 1:05) Sure, he just goes into steady beats when he starts to concentrate on the fingering, but it shows what he is feeling or hearing in his head IMO.
ORIGINAL: Ron.M I'm referring to the La Plazuela video AND the Almoraima video.
They are both the same 1,2*1,2* rhythm.
Thats the problem. In the PLazuela video itself there are at least 3 DIFFERENT patterns going on (palmas base, "table"=same as Pacos foot, and palmas variation). Pacos foot is a rhythm of !3!s whereas the main palmas are often in 2s (um TAK um TAK um TAK or TAK um TAK um TAK um) as you can see here:
and also in the PLazuela video. Maybe when you hear bulerias YOU start to think in your head "they are not clapping my pattern but im sure they MEAN it", nonetheless its not the same pattern, they havent even the same length. Emiliio shifts into 3s because the music IS a 3 beat pattern he plays there. If he played a "12... 7 8" kind of pattern he maybe would have used this in his foot, but usually its hard to tap fast with the foot, so probably the palmas would have gone into that "7,8", as they often DO, even with top artists.
All this talking about this or that pattern being superior is obsolete to me. Every pattern has at least one occasion where it absolutely fits. This goes for the "6 8 10" or the "7 8" patterns as well as clapping only in 2s, or 3s or the countless variations of 6 beat patterns.
Palmas is an art in itself used to embellish the performance with all sorts of patterns and contras.
I still maintain that 1,2*1,2* is the FUNDAMENTAL Bulerias rhythm and is far more useful to a guitarist than 12,3,6,8,10 which will make your toque sound dull and trip you up on odd sixes etc.
Asfalios was asking about a good rhythm reference for timekeeping.
Whether you tap your foot or just even feel it or hear it in your head, this fundamental rhythm is important to keep you on track and give you the accents to play off IMO.
Ron, each time it starts getting shaky with your assumptions you just make strange general statments like "Palmas is an art in itself used to embellish the performance with all sorts of patterns and contras."... You said that the pattern in Plazuela is THE SAME as in Almoraima, which is just bs. You didnt even got the Paco pattern right with the silent note. We werent talking about details, contras or whatever, just the main palmas. I also didnt say the 6 8 10 pattern is better, or the x 1 2 is worse. There are places where it fits, especially in old playing it sounds authentic and great or in certain places like Emilio showed. No problem with me here, but these statements about fundamental etc are way off, and in the end not helpful because nobody claps this as main "base" (im referring to Jasons video here).
This could go on for pages and pages...and I'll only be repeating myself.
Anyway
I still stick by what I say.. which is not what you want to interpret from it (like freely interchanging the words palmas and tapping and rhythm and pattern).
ORIGINAL: Ron.M I still stick by what I say.. which is not what you want to interpret from it (like freely interchanging the words palmas and tapping and rhythm and pattern).
You did it again! Man this is incredible... you know the 3 monkeys? Dude, you did not even get the correct rhythm/palmas/tapping pattern right and want to teach me about it? Okay if you think thats a good way of discussion, i will retreat here... in the end you did not even bother to tell me what exactly i have misinterpreted according to you. You know, this s*cks completely, when people show no hint of insight even if it turns out they might be not correct. No intention to clear things, to RELATE on what others say, only to propaganda the own view. Very bad style and the opposite of what a discussion should be.
That vid of jason is cool, and I have been talking about the same thing for many years since theT old FT forum. It is funny how some simple math concepts can turn into an argument without any demo. Or even WITH a demo.
How old is the "base" jason asks? Yeah we don't know but watching rito y geografia you focus on the viejos who obviously did not change much since they were young (you would think), and see how they feel the beat. The basic 12,2,4,6,8,10 seems fundamental to old timers, along with the 1,2,x,1,2,x thing Ron talks about as well as what jason talks about. Some examples I noticed:
Watch the old lady's palmas mainly:
And here are some old schoolers, especially the dancer marking the beat:
Seems having a mix of these elements is old, but the basic beat I would just describe as in three, or compound meter. Oh one more that shows the beat clear felt as 12,2,4 etc with the foot:
These folks (old ladies I refer to) were all born like early 1900's or late 1890's.
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