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Sevillianas
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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 RE: Sevillianas (in reply to Billyboy)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Billyboy
You guys where right, I can’t keep away from flamenco, I guess its in ones blood.
 Welcome back Dave.
Think of Sevillanas as little songs that are always sung in groups of four, with a short pause between each one.
There can therefore be up to four key/mode changes ie one for each Sevillana. They are played in straight Major and Minor keys as well as the phrygian mode. They are generally notated in 3/4 and each Sevillana follows the same pattern in terms of the number of bars for the introduction, the salida (melody intro bit) and the copla (verse). But rather than sit there counting out nine bars then twleve etc, I think its MUCH easier to sit down and learn a few, you soon get the feel for the structure
They are easy to learn because in terms of solo guitar, in each Sevillana the guitar plays some rhythm compas followed by a short melody intro which is kind of a hint of what's to come (the salida), then this is repeated (in a longer more developed form - the copla)three times, each sepeated by some rhythm compas.
All this will make much more sense when you sit down and learn a few, I assure you. NB don't go for anything modern, like a PDL or Tomatito solo recording, it will not be as simple and they rarely play al the repeats.
As for examples, check out Paco Pena's 'A La Feria' that I posted in the audio section a while back. Its from his Toques Flamencos book, and you would have no problem transcribing what's played. I wouldn't be suprised if someone's transcribed it in Tabledit or Guitar Pro on the web somewhere anyhow, I'll have a look later.
Several trad ones here:
http://herso.freeservers.com/tabs.html
Jon
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Date Nov. 30 2004 8:11:27
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Billyboy
Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003
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RE: Sevillianas (in reply to musicalgrant)
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Thanks guys, and gals. The whippets in fine fettle, he accompanies me on a siguiria. I have been trying to accompany a dance class with sevillianas, and keep going out of |Compas, but am determined to get to the bottom of it. They say you must start off with the melodic picado bit, so the dancers know where they are, rather than start with Rasgeuado, is this right. I have always played by feel, but with this I feel I must study it, its one of my least favourite toques, as it always sounds too stereotypical spanish. I have been told that it is counted in 3s, with the emphasis on 1, and chord changes on 2, but I find this method confusing. I think I will learn a Sabicas one, if I can find it, or if anyone has a mpeg of one. The tabledit versions are good, but the midi Rasgueados are a bit confusing. Its supposed to be an easy flamenco form to play, but I have always struggled with it.
Thanks
Dave
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Date Dec. 1 2004 11:03:16
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Sevillianas (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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Hi Jim,
In a way, I think the 12 count compás can be slightly easier to get to terms with because of it's rigid structure as in Soleares and Alegrias....Bulerias being a lot more difficult due to the natural syncopation opportunities and things like adding the occasional 6 beats etc.
I think it's in everybody's best interests to look at some of the "simpler" or less "Jondo" forms, such as Sevillanas, because it does shed a light on to this natural Flamenco way of shifting stuff on to the "off beat".
This way of thinking does percolate it's way through to all the other forms, such as Bulerias and is worth while knowing.
Myself, I've been listening and learning a lot from Fandangos de Huelva.
I remember Pohren saying that "If you want to while your hours, days, weeks and months away listening to Fandangos de Huelva...then go to Huelva!" LOL!
Fandangos is truely an important form, there hasn't been a lot done with in it in the solo guitar though, but it is a way of life for those Flamencos in Huelva in much the same way as Bulerias is still thought of as "de Jerez".
Limitless styles and applications.
The best exponent of Sevillanas IMO was Pepe Martinez.
Very uncool, no tense chords or pained expressions on his face, but this old, fat, jolly happy man sitting in his own patio in Sevilla, spinning out reams and reams of lyrical Sevillanas from his guitar.
A true master.
Timing wise, Sevillanas is very similar to Fandangos de Huelva, but with the accent shifted and with a lighter aire.
cheers
Ron
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Date Dec. 5 2004 21:26:59
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Paleto
Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA
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RE: Sevillianas (in reply to Billyboy)
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I alway count sevillanas in 3s, but that doesn't tell me precisely where the copla or other section ends. I just knew some simple ones and took it from there.
The more experienced dance teacher and guitarist who teach the classes at which I was playing a while back tended to count in 6s, but that was just their way, not in any sense the way most people might mark it.
By learning some simple ones, especially in tab and notation, you can count the number of beats for each section, not very hard to do. Then the structure becomes clearer.
While the simplest ones get boring after a while, a challenging one is fun, at least for me. I learned Nuñez's sevillanas from Flamencos en Nueva York - El rincon del Pali, which are pretty tough, but they are a bit more interesting for me than the tired old ones most players seem to know. But then again, the simple ones can be tweeked and tweeked until they become nearly something else, which can make them fun too.
I have some of Andres Batistas which are pretty simple, but are different than the standard ones and sometimes people like to play those since they are less known.
If anyone wants them they are still available through elflamencovive.es in each of these books:
http://www.elflamencovive.es/partituratodoficha.asp?refe=10680
http://www.elflamencovive.es/partituratodoficha.asp?refe=10681
http://www.elflamencovive.es/partituratodoficha.asp?refe=12514
Simple easy ones.
Anthony
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Date Dec. 6 2004 2:13:01
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Sevillianas (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer
I'm like you, was never interested in Sevillanas and never bothered to pay attention, I have no idea whatsoever's going on there, they always seemed to end on the wrong beat. Of course they don't, just part of my confusion.
Yeah, when something doesn't interest you its a bugger to learn. From a guitarist's perpective I think Sevillanas is one of the least interesting things - all those tedious single note coplas that seem to be endlessly repeated. As you say though Jim, its such an important one to learn for accompanying baile as its a good dance for couples.
You just have to grit your teeth and memorise a few, its the only way. Once you have the compas nailed, you can slot in some more interesting Sevillanas as Paleto says. There's a really great Sevillanas by PDL that sounds playable which I can't remember the name of, but when I have a moment I'm going to look at as it has some really unusual sounding chords in it.
Lots of modern Sevillanas (like Moraitos or Tomatitos) don't work without a band behind you, unfortunately  .
BTW, not wishing to start a fight resulting in people leaving, but in terms of keeping time, I count them in twos
Jon
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Date Dec. 6 2004 8:28:29
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Wow, Grant. I thought it cost you about three times that. Amazing. How could they build it so cheaply?