The single biggest problem with the flamenco community

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guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

The single biggest problem with the ...

Everybody is trying to sound like someone else.

All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos.

All the gitanos want to sound like Paco.

Paco secretly wishes he was Stravinsky.

My personal answer after going deep into this rabbit hole? Play whatever YOU feel like playing, and who gives a **** what anyone else thinks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 8:41:27

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Paco secretly wishes he was Stravinsky.

How do you know? Is it not a secret?

1. All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos.

2. All the gitanos want to sound like Paco.

3. Paco secretly wishes he was Stravinsky.

ergo: All the non-Spanish players want to be Stravinsky.

"That don't add up"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 8:45:24

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

I am Stravinsky

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 8:47:02

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

Interesting topic, strangely stated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 8:51:03

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

I am Stravinsky

Congratulations! You've surpassed Paco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 8:57:54

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Estevan)

Surpassing others is surprisingly unsatisfying, as Paco himself discovered long ago

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:10:14

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

I am Stravinsky.

Great, Congratulations, and Stravinsky certainly composed what he wanted, but just so you know Stravinsky did not know s***t about playing flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:10:29

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

1. All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos.

2. All the gitanos want to sound like Paco.

3. Paco secretly wishes he was Stravinsky.

ergo: All the non-Spanish players want to be Stravinsky.

Mind the difference between "want to sound like" and "want to be"
ergo: Stravinsky wants to sound like Paco (who's NOT a Gitano)

And: what does Paco sound like at the piano?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:29:23

Alonte

Posts: 214
Joined: Dec. 2 2008

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

In response to the original post...Whether for fun or not... none of these makes sense. Very judgemental...But I feel your frustrations man.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:33:28

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

The single biggest problem? I don't agree. Those are old issues coming around again with the latest cast of characters, and some of those issues might even be part of the process. IMO the biggest problem is failure to follow through. Going there, doing it, burning out and finding a way to rekindle the fire. Dealing with fatigue and saturation.

The way it normally works when we sit down to play is to go at it for a few minutes, stop for a bit and have another go, repeating the process until some kind of critical mass is reached. I think this represents the whole thing pretty well.

If you want to fill your glass you have to empty it first. If you want to express yourself, you have to listen.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:47:34

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to chapman_g)

quote:

Stravinsky did not know s***t about playing flamenco

Yup. He certainly didn't have one of these

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 9:49:36

guitarristamadrid

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

If you want to fill your glass you have to empty it first. If you want to express yourself, you have to listen.

Nice, I like it, sounds like the tao

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 10:07:29

yohan

Posts: 306
Joined: Feb. 5 2007

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

what is exactly your point?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 10:45:07

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to yohan)

quote:

what is exactly your point?

I think guitarrista is pointing out that he is drinking of the fuente of pure Flamenco, while others here merely mark the perimeter... like moths around a candle?

Maybe I interpreted it incorrectly?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 10:53:49

marrow3

Posts: 166
Joined: Mar. 1 2009

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

1. All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos.

not for me - but I want to be respectful in what I do play.

But IMO it is interesting why,or what causes you choose to do this.

cheers,
Richard

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 12:56:31

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 13:10:19

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to marrow3)

quote:

not for me - but I want to be respectful in what I do play.

Same here. The problem with the statement "All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos" is that it implies that all gitanos sound the same.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 13:12:19

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Everybody is trying to sound like someone else.

Well,.. as amateur and aficionado...My main interest lays in playing the music I love so much in the way I love it so much. And that is composed by others in the style of others. Why inventing the wheel again? I mean as amateur? I see no need in that.
When one is professional...one should look for his own style. yep. But not as aficionado as me i.e..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 13:32:06

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 15:12:22

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

You sound very frustrated guitarrista madrid.

Your freedom to express yourself with music is something you already have, yet you seem focused on gaining approval for that freedom.

If you have your freedom, There should be no problems with the flamenco community? Perhaps honestly identifying what you are trying to achieve, experience and gain by playing music will help.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 17:14:55

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

Yup. He certainly didn't have one of these

I printed out mine some mins ago. Nowadays you dont need to go to spain and take these clases... you just need photoshop and a good printer.

Well,.. I wonder why they didnt just give you a chocolate-medal for participation.. the certificate is useless anyway. But you could eat the chocolate.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2010 23:36:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

I'm not too sure why you took it upon yourself to have him prove his "flamenco pedigree"??

nealf,

I wasn't asking Evan to prove anything.

I just was interested in hearing how he played Flamenco after attending El Entri's cañoroto school as I'm sure many here would be too.
His webpage just contained non-Flamenco stuff.

After all, this IS a dedicated Flamenco forum, not a GENERAL guitar forum, so it's not unreasonable to think that most members are interested in Flamenco.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 2:03:02

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

After all, this IS a dedicated Flamenco forum, not a GENERAL guitar forum.

And flamenco is not just guitar

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 5:40:32

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Ron.M)

I want to sound like a potato.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 5:42:10

Alonte

Posts: 214
Joined: Dec. 2 2008

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to bursche)

I want to sound like a tomate. A small one :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 7:53:24

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Kate)

quote:

And flamenco is not just guitar

OMG Kate, have you gone mad?! "Not just guitar!" ?!
What could there possibly be beyond a plethora of prestidigitational picado permutations?
Sheesh, next you'll be telling us it's "a way of life" or something equally outrageous.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 9:40:43

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

I want to sound like a potato.

thats a classic (quote from tomatito or sabicas? ok i sound like a lemon, and its gone orf!.

i like guitarista idea, keep it going Guitar man, i liked your myspace stuff it was reminded me of pink floyd and getting 2 colors on the rubics cube (that can only be good!).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 11:27:07

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

quote:

And flamenco is not just guitar

OMG Kate, have you gone mad?! "Not just guitar!" ?!
What could there possibly be beyond a plethora of prestidigitational picado permutations?
Sheesh, next you'll be telling us it's "a way of life" or something equally outrageous.

Very funny Esteban !! Not long now before you join our way of life in the Sacromonte

Actually I was thinking this does not just apply to guitar I have heard people say that Carmen Linares sounds ridiculous as she mimics Gypsy singing, a bit like if Charlotte Church decided to sing with Mick Jagger's fake cockney accent

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 11:41:46

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

Im not exactly a tiny tomato, but i have been a vegetable for the past 2 weeks.

I like Stravinsky, but i prefer Paco de Lucia.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 11:46:45

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: The single biggest problem with ... (in reply to guitarristamadrid)

quote:

All the non-Spanish players want to sound like the gitanos

You mean play on an out of tune Admira with 5 strings and a beer mat for a golpe plate. Don't get me wrong, the gypsy artists are great but for every great gypsy artist you have to put up 20 noise makers who think they are artists just because "its in their blood"
(Rant over now...just had to put up with a lot of BS this afternoon)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2010 11:56:41