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New Tomatito Cd
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: New Tomatito Cd (in reply to Rain)
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Orchestral music is beautiful. Flamenco music is beautiful. Nevertheless, the two do not mix well, to the detriment of flamenco. Orchestral music, accompanied by flamenco guitar, still sounds beautifully orchestral. But the flamenco is diluted to an extent that it is no longer flamenco. This is not a question of "traditional" vs. "nuevo." It is simply flamenco, like Icarus in the Greek myth, immolating its wings by flying too close to a sun it was never meant to, and should have never attempted to, approach.
Cheers,
Bill
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Date Mar. 28 2010 22:22:24
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: New Tomatito Cd (in reply to Gummy)
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Yeah theres something intimate, narrative to a solo performance, not only solo guitar, also solo piano, violin etc... opposed to the seemingly festive orchestra music. But i disagree in that i have seen many good introductions of other instruments.
I wonder who had this orchestra idea, and WHAT he was thinking when he had this idea? Was it like:
"Hey guys i have it! Lets do some original thing this time!!!
Lets play the same flamenco as always, but this time, WITH ORCHESTRAAAH!"
AAAHH!!  
If its a disrespect to download albums, then i will definitely download this one! and probably, as i know myself, i will delete it after that and download it again.
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Фламенко
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Date Mar. 29 2010 13:04:52
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Adam
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
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RE: New Tomatito Cd (in reply to Rain)
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I agree that the intimacy of a solo performance, or one with just a guitarist and a singer (and maybe some palmas) is fantastic, but that doesn't mean that only that kind of music has merit. I mean, honestly, four centuries of orchestrated classical music speaks to the contrary.
I'm pretty sure the people who came up with the orchestra-in-flamenco idea realized that there's a lot of great music to be found in orchestral forms, that it would make some interesting and different music, and that there's really nothing wrong with that as long as the music is good.
Seriously, I can understand the desire for raw, gritty solo performances, and most flamenco I listen to is like that, but it's just silly to say that all flamenco should be only that. All told, I don't understand how you can categorically reject orchestral flamenco without rejecting all orchestral music outright.
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Date Mar. 29 2010 13:10:22
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: New Tomatito Cd (in reply to Adam)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ramparts
Well, so what if it's no longer flamenco? Are the only types of good music the music that is 100% flamenco and the music that is 0% flamenco? If orchestral music accompanied by flamenco guitar is still beautifully orchestral, then why shut yourself off to that?
If you want to say, on the other hand, that a lot of attempts to combine flamenco and orchestra haven't worked out well, that's something I might be able to get on board with. But when you play something like the guajira from Vicente's Poeta and tell me something's wrong with that, well, then that just sounds like delusion.
i think the people who mentioned that they prefer flamenco without orchestra, don't mean that other types of music are not good music.
its just that if they are in mood for flamenco, they somehow prefer the "less is more" theory ;-)
for me flamenco is like a good steak. you just need salt and peper. 2 minutes of roasting each side, and thats it.
but if you add ketchup, or other fancy sauces, then you ruin the steak imo.
but as mentioned, there are exceptions with some well-conceived and subtle orchestral addition which really sounds good and interesting, but as far as i am concerned, i have to say that maybe 10% of flamenco-orchestra tracks which i heard, belong to this category.
thats just me of course.
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Date Mar. 29 2010 13:43:06
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Adam
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
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RE: New Tomatito Cd (in reply to Rain)
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Yeah Arash, maybe that's true. I probably wouldn't put it as low as 10% but there's definitely some orchestral flamenco which doesn't do it for me. But moods are moods - sometimes you're in the mood for a juicy steak with salt n peppa (or on its own), sometimes you want a burger with everything on it. Same way, sometimes (usually) I want to listen to Camarón jamming with Tomatito, sometimes I'm in the mood to hear Miguel Poveda's Cante i Orquesta album (which I think is very tastefully done) or Vicente's Poeta or something. And sometimes (a lot, these days!) I'm in the mood for Juan Carmona's Orillas which does a little bit of orchestration and a lot of Arabic with some very flamenco tracks.
Like I said, man, good music is good music. It seems like a lot of people here have no problem with different types of music, unless there's any hint of flamenco in it, in which case it becomes a "bastardization of flamenco." I say bastardize away; just make sure it's damn good, and if it's too bastardized then don't call it flamenco 
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Date Mar. 29 2010 13:48:17
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