New Tomatito Cd (Full Version)

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Rain -> New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 25 2010 23:08:30)

New Tomatito Cd titled
'Sonanta suite' in April. It appears that it was recorded live with orchestra in a 2008 concert.
Tracklist:

Porque tú lo vales (soleá)
Mariángeles (tangos)
La cantera (taranta)
Alegrías
Canción turca
Para Troilo y Salgán (tango)
Adios Noninohttps
Taranta
Two Much
Más bulerías
Pa la Pimpi



XXX -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 1:35:34)

bad news [:D]



yohan -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 1:36:33)

yeah i want new stuff [:D]



Gummy -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 5:42:49)

Too bad there is an orchestra involved...[:@]



HolyEvil -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 14:27:57)

It might be good with the orchestra?
I really love the Spain/Spain again CDs.. altho it's not flamenco, I find that the sounds compliment each other.. maybe this CD would be like that?



Doitsujin -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 15:16:43)

So...no new CD but warmed up things from the past. :./

quote:

It might be good with the orchestra?


If there is a god I pray to him that he will save us from more orchestra in flamenco.



Gummy -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 26 2010 18:04:37)

quote:

If there is a god I pray to him that he will save us from more orchestra in flamenco

[:D][:D][:D][:D] Yeah, and flutes and harmonicas....



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 28 2010 13:09:28)

Sweet! More orchestra in flamenco.

Seriously, kids. Orchestral music is beautiful. Flamenco is beautiful. A tasteful and well-done mix of the two is nothing short of glorious.



ashod -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 28 2010 13:14:35)

quote:

Yeah, and flutes and harmonicas....


I actually love the harmonica here. It's genius and always gives me the goosebumps.




Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 28 2010 14:31:29)

[Deleted by Admins]



gj Michelob -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 28 2010 22:00:50)

quote:

Sweet! More orchestra in flamenco.


Flamenco getting fat for lack of exercise... orchestral flamenco



BarkellWH -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 28 2010 22:22:24)

Orchestral music is beautiful. Flamenco music is beautiful. Nevertheless, the two do not mix well, to the detriment of flamenco. Orchestral music, accompanied by flamenco guitar, still sounds beautifully orchestral. But the flamenco is diluted to an extent that it is no longer flamenco. This is not a question of "traditional" vs. "nuevo." It is simply flamenco, like Icarus in the Greek myth, immolating its wings by flying too close to a sun it was never meant to, and should have never attempted to, approach.

Cheers,

Bill



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 6:30:34)

Well, so what if it's no longer flamenco? Are the only types of good music the music that is 100% flamenco and the music that is 0% flamenco? If orchestral music accompanied by flamenco guitar is still beautifully orchestral, then why shut yourself off to that?

If you want to say, on the other hand, that a lot of attempts to combine flamenco and orchestra haven't worked out well, that's something I might be able to get on board with. But when you play something like the guajira from Vicente's Poeta and tell me something's wrong with that, well, then that just sounds like delusion.



Gummy -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 7:40:37)

quote:

I actually love the harmonica here. It's genius and always gives me the goosebumps.


That player was skilled and I have to admit I liked that sound better than that bass making farting sounds in the background. [:)]

I'm probably too closed minded but I like fewer instruments. I feel like the harmonica makes it sound like background music to dine by.

I wonder when someone is going to play bagpipes along with flamenco?



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 7:42:49)

http://www.esflamenco.com/scripts/news/ennews.asp?frmIdPagina=287

[:D][:D][:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 12:26:00)

quote:

I have to admit I liked that sound better than that bass making farting sounds in the background.


LOL!



Arash -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 12:58:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gummy


I'm probably too closed minded but I like fewer instruments.


me too.

cajon + palmas.
thats all you need.

there are only few exceptions with more than that, which i like.



XXX -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:04:52)

Yeah theres something intimate, narrative to a solo performance, not only solo guitar, also solo piano, violin etc... opposed to the seemingly festive orchestra music. But i disagree in that i have seen many good introductions of other instruments.

I wonder who had this orchestra idea, and WHAT he was thinking when he had this idea? Was it like:
"Hey guys i have it! Lets do some original thing this time!!!
Lets play the same flamenco as always, but this time, WITH ORCHESTRAAAH!"

AAAHH!! [:D][:@]
If its a disrespect to download albums, then i will definitely download this one! [:D] and probably, as i know myself, i will delete it after that and download it again.



Florian -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:09:09)

yeah i agree...while orchestra is nice ...the album becomes something else


in many examples often the guitar becomes simplified because its relying on the orchestra...its the kind of thing a guitarrist does when he dosent have a whole album of new material or new ideas


theres some flamenco albums with orchestra i like, and listened to a couple of times but its a novelty ...i dont listen to orchestral flamenco when i want flamenco...just when i want some background ambiance...for one thing u cannever copy any of the falsetas cause most feel empthy without the orchestra...so the educational part is out the window.....and to me every good album should be entertaining as educational......but ofcourse this album might be excellent i havent heard it yet, so i wont make up my mind 100% before i hear it

quote:

cajon + palmas.
thats all you need


and cante...any perfect guitar solo album should have atleast 2 or 3 cante tracks, IMO



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:10:22)

I agree that the intimacy of a solo performance, or one with just a guitarist and a singer (and maybe some palmas) is fantastic, but that doesn't mean that only that kind of music has merit. I mean, honestly, four centuries of orchestrated classical music speaks to the contrary.

I'm pretty sure the people who came up with the orchestra-in-flamenco idea realized that there's a lot of great music to be found in orchestral forms, that it would make some interesting and different music, and that there's really nothing wrong with that as long as the music is good.

Seriously, I can understand the desire for raw, gritty solo performances, and most flamenco I listen to is like that, but it's just silly to say that all flamenco should be only that. All told, I don't understand how you can categorically reject orchestral flamenco without rejecting all orchestral music outright.



Arash -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:30:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian


quote:

cajon + palmas.
thats all you need


and cante...any perfect guitar solo album should have atleast 2 or 3 cante tracks, IMO


Of course , Cante. Thats self-evident.
What i meant was only talking about instruments.
Cante is something else.

Besides Cante Tracks, also sometimes there are solo guitar tracks with only a short part of Cante inbetween, i also like that a lot.



XXX -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:33:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts
but that doesn't mean that only that kind of music has merit. I mean, honestly, four centuries of orchestrated classical music speaks to the contrary.


It doesnt mean that there must be a good alternative either. And, the time a music has passed on this earth is a measure of what exactly?
I have nothing against orchestral music, but its a different taste. Orchestral compositions are different, its not even a musical style in itself to be very precise, they were used to add effects to a composition. A fusion of two good music styles does not have to be a success. I like chocolate and i like steak, but i dont want chocolate steak.


quote:

but it's just silly to say that all flamenco should be only that


yes youre right. all flamenco IS only that.



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:38:44)

No, it doesn't have to be a success. Obviously if you're making bad orchestral flamenco, you should stop making it. If you're making any bad music, you should stop making it. But it seems pretty clear to me that if you have two types of good music, there exists a balance (however difficult to strike) that utilizes both well and to good effect.

Also, you have a fair point that once you start adding orchestras and stuff, it's probably not be right to call it flamenco. Just good music that has a significant flamenco influence. It seems to me that a lot of people have a huge problem with that kind of music; I personally see no problem. If it's good music, it's good music no matter whether it's "puro" or not.



Arash -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:43:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts

Well, so what if it's no longer flamenco? Are the only types of good music the music that is 100% flamenco and the music that is 0% flamenco? If orchestral music accompanied by flamenco guitar is still beautifully orchestral, then why shut yourself off to that?

If you want to say, on the other hand, that a lot of attempts to combine flamenco and orchestra haven't worked out well, that's something I might be able to get on board with. But when you play something like the guajira from Vicente's Poeta and tell me something's wrong with that, well, then that just sounds like delusion.


i think the people who mentioned that they prefer flamenco without orchestra, don't mean that other types of music are not good music.

its just that if they are in mood for flamenco, they somehow prefer the "less is more" theory ;-)

for me flamenco is like a good steak. you just need salt and peper. 2 minutes of roasting each side, and thats it.

but if you add ketchup, or other fancy sauces, then you ruin the steak imo.

but as mentioned, there are exceptions with some well-conceived and subtle orchestral addition which really sounds good and interesting, but as far as i am concerned, i have to say that maybe 10% of flamenco-orchestra tracks which i heard, belong to this category.
thats just me of course.



XXX -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:48:03)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts
I personally see no problem. If it's good music, it's good music no matter whether it's "puro" or not.


No i dont have a problem either, i dont walk around telling everybody whats flamenco and whats not, if people are not interested. I just think on this forum we are above the average knowledge so we should be able to agree on these things IMO. And this stuff is simply not.
I dont think there is something like good orchestra fusion. Orchestra was used, as you say correctly, in the classical music. It had and has its justification, musically, in those promiment musical fields, and i simply dont count flamenco to be a part of them.

quote:

thats just me of course.


Hey, me too! [;)]



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:48:17)

Yeah Arash, maybe that's true. I probably wouldn't put it as low as 10% but there's definitely some orchestral flamenco which doesn't do it for me. But moods are moods - sometimes you're in the mood for a juicy steak with salt n peppa (or on its own), sometimes you want a burger with everything on it. Same way, sometimes (usually) I want to listen to Camarón jamming with Tomatito, sometimes I'm in the mood to hear Miguel Poveda's Cante i Orquesta album (which I think is very tastefully done) or Vicente's Poeta or something. And sometimes (a lot, these days!) I'm in the mood for Juan Carmona's Orillas which does a little bit of orchestration and a lot of Arabic with some very flamenco tracks.

Like I said, man, good music is good music. It seems like a lot of people here have no problem with different types of music, unless there's any hint of flamenco in it, in which case it becomes a "bastardization of flamenco." I say bastardize away; just make sure it's damn good, and if it's too bastardized then don't call it flamenco [;)]



Adam -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:49:26)

Hey, I think my 500th post was on this thread!! And I'm a fellow now. Did I just become a fellow? Sweet [:D]



Arash -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:53:13)

would like to add that i even have problems with 2 or 3 guitars playing together (except some rumbas and except some few compositions in other palos).

so its not so much (or only) against other instruments.

its somehow against too much muddle, or, i don't know how to explain, too many different sounds together. specially in modern compositions, a single guitar plays so much different nuances and details, that other sounds would overlap it and you can't even hear it with all its subtle details anymore.

hope you understand what i mean



XXX -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 13:54:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts

Hey, I think my 500th post was on this thread!! And I'm a fellow now. Did I just become a fellow? Sweet [:D]


congrats, you now have access to the secret adult part of the forum [:D]
there you can also find, among other things, the correct and full definition of what flamenco is!

quote:

unless there's any hint of flamenco in it, in which case it becomes a "bastardization of flamenco."


Usually its the other way: theres no flamenco in it, but its called like that. But lets not start on this, its very late here, and it doesnt get earlier [8D]



Rain -> RE: New Tomatito Cd (Mar. 29 2010 14:33:21)

quote:

And, the time a music has passed on this earth is a measure of what exactly?


That it is better than good and still relevant.



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