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chord help
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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 RE: chord help (in reply to rickm)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gtrr66@msn.com
Mr Steenland, you are right, it is in Bronc Gitano, and in there lies the problem (sortof) I have Dennis Kosters books and he was a understudy of Sabicas, no where does he reference that chord. IT is a difficult transition and I might assume it came from Alain 'Faucher transcription (which I have also) I am wondering if this is a regularly used chord or might it be a mistake by Mr. Faucher,
A few thoughts to put this in perspective which hopefully won't confuse:
Firstly, flamencos never play the same thing the same way twice, and although Sabicas was a noted soloist and composer, if two different recordings exist of Bronce Gitano, I would be amazed if they are the same, note for note. So my first question is whether Faucher and Koster are working from the same source?
Secondly, whereas Faucher tends to transcribe exactly what is being played from a particular source, Koster is known for his work as a method writer - would he not be simplifying what Sabicas played in order to come with playable, yet authentic falsetas? (Thats what Juan Martin does, for example).
In terms of its legitimacy as a chord in the context you gave, yes, absolutely. Whether you spell it as a Bdim or Fflat 5, it gives a strong resolution to the E that I assume follows, so it is a nice substitution for a regular F in the standard Am - G - F - E cadence.
At the end of the day, the choice is really yours how you play it. No one is going to come up and say 'hey, that guy just played a Sabicas falseta and he missed the flat5 in that chord, thats outrageous!'  Flamenco has always been about taking what has gone before, and adding your own personal twist, after all.
So play it if you like it and you can, if you don't then don't worry about it.
Jon
PS little is said in flamenco methods about fingering, but the trickier stuff you get into, the more important good fingering becomes. Rather than seeing a section of music as three or four entirely seperate chords you have to examine the process of how you get from A to B. If you find a particular transition difficult, maybe you need to re-finger the preceding chord, for example. Maybe you can use a guide finger or a hinge barre to help move from one chord to the other. There are lots of little tricks like this that classical guitarists use to facilitate some incredibly awkward transitions in their repertoire.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 1 2004 8:25:19
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: chord help (in reply to Jamey)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jamey
Jon, do you know of any resources that elaborate on these kinds of "tricks" and fingering approaches?
No, I'm afraid is the short answer. I haven't come across any serious discussion of fingering in flamenco literature (yet)
If you study classical guitar, you are taught this as you go along, and learn to see a piece of music as something that continually flows, as opposed to a serious of entirely seperate chords. Take something like Cavatina (theme from the Deerhunter) for example. It is all based around chords, many of them difficult to finger (it was written originally for piano), and very hard to get from A to B most of the time. To play it convincingly, your fingers have to be constantly in motion, always anticipating the next chord. From the viewers perepective, you probably wouldn't even notice most these things, they can be very subtle and very quick.
In good classical methods you will find fingering discussed in relation to specific pieces, and how to accomplish difficult transitions, but of course that would mean you wading through a lot of stuff that is irrelevant to flamenco or stuff that may not be immediately useful to you (eg few serious classical methods are written in tab.)
Best thing I can say is if you find a certain transition difficult, rather than simply practicing it over and over, its often more useful to look at what comes before and how you finger that.Eg in bulerias going from Bb to A, you have choices on how to finger that A - sometimes the 'flamenco way' of a partial barre with index and second finger on the C# is the best option, sometimes not. Depends on what comes next.
The following can also help in difficult transitions, depending on the situation:
-landing the fingers on a chord in the order they are played (if an arpeggio), rather than landing them all at once
-staring to move the fingers in a chord after their note has been played
- for big stretches, landing the weakest finger first (for most people, the pinky or ring finger)
-using a guide finger: moving from chord A to B, is there a finger you can leave in place making light contact with a particular string as you change?
-for long shifts across the neck, rather than trying to move across the neck and rearrange your fingers all in one movement, practicing the lift-rearrange-move-put down sequence
-hinge barres
All depends on the situation of course.
HTH.
Jon
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Date Nov. 4 2004 8:12:24
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I have become suspicious of some of the transcriptions I have observed and do note several different versions for the same piece. A good example is Sabicas's malaguena, I think I have seen at least 3 for the same piece, and I do know that he played different versions at different times. But it makes it hard if you are trying to play in a definitive manner. I have had quality players who played it differently and each emphatically states they are playing the correct version. SOrt of like Hendrix, there is lots of versions, but only one master. I guess there is latitude with flamenco, but I would like to be accurate as well. anyway thanks again for everyones input and it makes it nice to have people on this forum who are musically expert and can have a better sense of it than I do.
