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RE: Listen to this
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Conrad)
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Mark, the point, I think, is that Clapton is NOT a blues star, he just is publicized as one (and accepted by one by the major public). True, he is embraced by such greats as Buddy Guy, but I have heard interviewees say: "What's Buddy going to say, he's getting rich because of Clapton!" I have quite a few Clapton albums--he is responsible for leading me to the blues. But once I got there, I wouldn't listen to Clapton for blues anymore than I would listen to Jesse Cook for flamenco. Carlos Montoya filled stadiums, I believe, playing laughable flamenco! This, I believe, is truly analagous, regardless of birthplace.
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Date Oct. 29 2004 20:23:24
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Mark2)
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Mark, yes, well everyone has their own opinion... Clapton has had a wonderful career, I have heard most of it through his recordings. I think he is a great player but I don't like his blues. As for Montoya, I don't care for what he plays either. He had great ligado on a guitar with extra low tension and action, right? Well, anyways I don't judge him on his technique but on what he plays and to me it wasn't good. I guess when we say someone is a star--well that really means that they are well-loved by the people, so in that case you are right that Clapton and Montoya were certainly stars. But you probably also meant that they measure up to the best blues and flamenco players of their era--and in that I disagree very strongly. I don't hear soul when I hear Clapton play, it sounds to me like an American trying to sing cante jondo. And Montoya simply shouldn't be compared to Sabicas who also gave solo concerts but a bit more respectably I think. When we start talking about stars and popularity and credibility we are talking apples and oranges, I think! As far as the comments about Clapton and Guy, they were from 20 years ago. Remember that Guy and Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf all got "theirs" because of the British. They got their second careers only because of the Rolling Stones and Clapton. Which is similiar to Paco selling records because of Ottmar. Sort of... :)
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Date Nov. 1 2004 17:31:04
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Mark2
Posts: 1878
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Conrad)
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Just curious. Do you like SRV? He does nothing for me. All Albert King and Hendrix licks, even Jimi's image for god's sake. And when I write"star" I'm not talking just about popularity, but ability. And I still say Carlos Montoya was a flamenco star in his day and Clapton was a blues star in the sixties. I think they measured up to the best players of their era-in what they were doing. Since Buddy Guy, etc. were unknowns then, you can't know what they sounded like. BB. Freddy, and Albert King were around, and you could make a case that they were all better guitarists than Clapton, but that's personal preference. Muddy Waters and Clapton are apples and oranges-I don't see how they can be compared. Carlos had no peers-he was the only one out there. Sabas was later. I don't think you can compare CM to Nino Ricardo, or others back in Espana, because they were not performing for thousands of Americans in theatres. If Carlos stayed back in Spain in quadros where he started, he likely would never have played the way you hear him on recordings. I don't care much for what he played on recordings either, but that doesn't change what he accomplished.
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Date Nov. 1 2004 22:25:08
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Guest
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Weelll! If we are talking about blues, who plays it like Jimi Hendrix anyway??? Jimi copped off Buddy, but played it his way. Clapton copped off Freddie and Albert and did what he could. I played support on stage once with Cream and thought he was pretty good, if not up to the standard of Ginger Baker or Jack Bruce. Then Bruce confesses that he learned all his bass lines from Bach . After all an artista is an artista and the word better should not apply. When I am not listening to cante, I usually listen to Albert, just because I like his style. Sean
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Date Nov. 2 2004 13:20:20
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Jamey
Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Conrad)
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I dunno, blues to me is more of the ilk of Elmor James, John Lee Hooker (to name more recognized names)..... unplugged, grizzled, smoke filled and scratchy vinyl single track recording. The electric guitar variety always seemed to be missing something for me. I've never thought of Hendrix as a blues guitarist (that's not to say that he couldn't play the style - because really, what couldn't he play???) and Clapton as a blues player when compared to Elmor James is as blues as Ottomar Liebert is Flamenco. It doesn't matter how much of a fan you are of him (Clapton), there's a difference between being and emulating. I think many of us here are aware of that in ourselves with respect to flamenco as well. You have to live it to be it (regardless of how accomplished at playing we become). That said, I'm content with learning and participating on whatever level I can, simply because I love it and find satisfaction in it. If you didn't grow up in it, live it, breath it and be immersed in it to the point of it becoming part of your essence, you aren't it. That doesn't mean you can't play great music though, far from it. TAG!!!! YER IT!!!! (* runs away giggling *)
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Date Nov. 2 2004 18:24:52
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Mark2
Posts: 1878
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Listen to this (in reply to Jamey)
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Jamey, I respect your and the other guy's opinions about what you think is blues, or who is the blues, but you have to admit that when you compare Clapton to Ottmar, you are leaving out the fact that Clapton studied and learned the blues as opposed to Ottmar y flamenco. It's really not a fair comparison. If you want to compare Clapton to David Serva-fine with me. But David Serva from America performs and records with professional Spanish singers just as Clapton performs and records with blues legends. In fact , David works in Spain more than many native Spanish guitarists, so if you want to say he's not flamenco, and Clapton is not blues, I guess you can, but I'm on the other side of the fence in both cases. I don't think either can be considered the definitive artist in their fields, but both to me are excellent representitives of professionals, worthy of respect as a flamenco or bluesman.
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Date Nov. 2 2004 21:22:58
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