flamenco nicknames

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flamenco nicknames

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Güiro

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 22 2008
From: Colorado

flamenco nicknames

I wondering how many flamencos don't have a cool flamenco nickname? Vicente Amingo is the first one I can think of that comes to mind. How many others are there? Why do so many flamencos use nicknames? Is this popular in other styles of music?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 20:22:41

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

It's just part of Spanish culture. In everday life, your formal name is for business, strangers and acquaintences, and your nickname is for close friends and family. That goes for everyone, not just musicians or flamencos. Sometimes it's the other way around, with your formal name being reserved by those who know you well. It's sort of like a guy's friends calling him "Tony" and only his mother calling him "Anthony."

About the concept of identity, Spanish kids always go through a phase where they become aware of signatures (like when you sign your name at the end of a letter). It's funny because they always overdo it at first, with all kinds of exaggerated loops and flourishes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2010 23:36:53

estebanana

Posts: 9364
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

If Vicente Amigo was an Englishman, his name would be Vinnie Friend. If he were from Long Island New York he would be called: Yo, Vinnie!

He needs a nickname.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 0:11:40

flybynight

Posts: 121
Joined: Aug. 14 2009

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

Juan Martin's nickname is just plain "Johnny", amongst his spanish friends, and curiously his english friends too.

(runs for cover..)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 1:41:09

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

Perhaps the use of nicknames originates from the flamenco gitanos.

In Greece, the gipsies use their nicknames in their life. I had some gipsy friends called Tsiou, Katsoulinos, Saravakos (which was the forename of a famous greek soccer player of the 80s-90s).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 4:28:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

Cuz you could not tell which "Jose" was singing, or which "Manolo" or "paco" or whoever was playing etc. Look what happened with "Juan Carmona".....I mean WHO do I mean here? That is like half a dozen people, and one of em is French!

Amigo is not his last name, it is Girol. Sanlucar is not manolo's name, it is Muñoz, same for de lucia, de gastor, de huelva, Niño Ricardo was Manuel Serrapi, etc etc.

That leaves the actual guitarists that use their actual name only Ramon Montoya, Rafael Riqueni, Juan Manuel Cañizares, Gerardo Nuñez, and Jeronimo Maya. Can't think of any others on my favorite lest.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 10:13:03

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

I agree with Norman; its just part of the culture. Pretty much in Spain and all of latin america people have nicknames. Most people give nicknames to other people based on their physical apearances:

Flaco - skinny
Gordo(a) - fat
largo - tall (but it actully means long)
Chaparro(a) - short
pelon - bald
negro - black or brown skin
Pelo de maiz - red head (actually means corn hair)

We have a cowrker here whos name is Mauricio, or Mau. He stutters a lot, so we all call him Ma Mau! He laughs at it and that is now his name!

But theres also the nicknames that are from childhod that have just satyed with you - Camaron de la Isla was named camaron, or shrimp, because of his fair complexion, and de la isla means "of the island". Most people who are called Tito, are not actually named tito - it is just a common nickname that is given to a child.

Since my parents are Mexican, my nickname here in Costa Rica is Manito. Mano, or manito is a common way of saying buddy or man in Mexico.

Hope this helps!

Vic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 10:14:25

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

I don't think it's that much of a big deal really...

I mean...practically everyone at school everywhere has a nickname.
Nobody goes around calling each other Peter or John or Robert or whatever...

People nickname "unpleasant" folk at work too amongst themselves.

Nicknaming is an obviously human instinct, which more accurately describes the person other than their actual name.

Even this Forum has "login" or nicknames.

cheers,

Ron

LOL!....There was a really, really tall guy at my school who looked a bit strange...
His surname was Poiner..

His nickname ended up as "FrankenPoin"

Another fat lad got called "Puffer"..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 10:36:10

Güiro

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 22 2008
From: Colorado

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Cuz you could not tell which "Jose" was singing, or which "Manolo" or "paco" or whoever was playing etc. Look what happened with "Juan Carmona".....I mean WHO do I mean here? That is like half a dozen people, and one of em is French

quote:

Amigo is not his last name, it is Girol.

I thought his name was Vicente Amigo Girol but I may be wrong.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 10:48:43

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

I knew somebody whose surname was Koerting... he got the nickname Koettel which means rob? rabbit-rob?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 11:26:42

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Doitsujin)

I don't quite get that one Doit..

But surely you must have seen the John Mills war movies where people are called..

Bunny (surname Warren)
Snowy (surname Whyte)

etc..

That was really amongst the Officer classes though....

"I say...damn..blast old man...I just heard old Bunny has just got himself a new Kite what?"

"Man's a damn good flier...he's waited a damn long time for this chance..."

(Etc...etc...yawn......)

Meanwhile the ordinary front-line (Baldrick) soldier was just called "you there man"

(This is the sort of stuff that started the 50's/60's revolution of young people who were just fed up of of that tired old British Establishment.!

Like...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 11:38:24

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

The popularity of nicknames in Spain is rife but particularly so with gypsy's.

This may stem from the fact that only 40 years ago when Franco had power he insisted all woman be called Maria and all men Jose. They were then able to choose a christian name of choice. They also have two surnames.

Maria (Reyes) + fathers suranme + mother maiden name
Jose (Ramon) + fathers suranme + mother maiden name

Curious eh?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 12:24:37

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

In school we had no nicknames at all. Also at the university, i dont know anybody who has a nickname.
We just use the normal names. It works, its a pretty simple concept actually

quote:

Most people give nicknames to other people based on their physical apearances

I recently saw the name "El chorizo" on a website ...
A dancer i know likes to give me "olé, Moreno!" jaleos and for that one second i think i sound like an authentic flamenco guitarrist ... or at least i feel like that

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 14:20:07

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

if i should release a CD, my nickname will be paco de persia.

also i am working on a new palo: persianas

Deniz, you should work on Osmanas ;-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 14:30:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
also i am working on a new palo: persianas

Sounds like a persi-flage...
In spain they would probably call me El Turco...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 14:32:19

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
also i am working on a new palo: persianas

Sounds like a persi-flage...
In spain they would probably call me El Turco...

just found out that someone from iran stole my idea already (with persianas)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 14:37:08

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash
just found out that someone from iran stole my idea already (with persianas)

lol! He is good, and palmas are not bad either. Flamenco is really getting around...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 14:44:08

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

quote:

This may stem from the fact that only 40 years ago when Franco had power he insisted all woman be called Maria and all men Jose.

I was not aware of this!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 18:55:03

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

Well, I'm over simplifying a complex situation.

In fact, EVERYONE, had to be called Maria (for religious reasons) and if you were a man you could use Jose Maria just as girls used Maria Jose. Religious stuff....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 19:28:46

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to sean65)

I know a family with 7 daughters and they are all called María !

In Poligono they call me La Kate ( pronounced kayate) !

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 1:48:37

sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Güiro)

quote:

( pronounced kayate) !

LOL. Are you sure they 'call you' or maybe they're 'telling you'

Kayate sounds very similar to 'Callate'!!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 3:01:04

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Kate)

quote:

kayate

Sure it's not La Callate?

[edit]I see Sean beat me to it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 4:36:02

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to sean65)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sean65
Kayate sounds very similar to 'Callate'!!!!

Hahahahaha very funny Sean and Simon !

They are actually trying to pronounce Kate the way the English say it and it comes out as as a long kay-ate, (English not spanish pronunciation).

So 'chanta la mui '

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 6:01:12

granjuanillo

Posts: 32
Joined: Nov. 3 2009

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to fevictor)

quote:

negro - black or brown skin

In Mexico there is a whole range of terms for skin color - guero, moreno claro, moreno, prieto ... I wonder if this is a holdover from the libro de las castas.

A year ago, I read El Chato de la Isla's book (he was called "Chato" - 'pug nose' because an illness left him with a very small, deformed nose). He was discussing the nickname 'Farina' - there was a dancer named Farina, from Chiclana (who, by the way was crippled - he's discussed in Howson's Flamencos of Cadiz Bay - the Maestro Felipe chapter). You think they would have called him "Cojo", but 'Farina' referred to his dark complexion. There is, of course, the famous fandangos singer, Rafael Farina - I hadn't realized 'Farina' was a nickname, but he is also dark.

Where this comes from is amazing. In the 30s and 40s, dubbed versions of Little Rascals movies were popular in Spain. The names of the kids were also translated in Spanish - the Spanish word for 'buckwheat' is 'farina' - so after that, it was common to refer to dark-skinned kids as 'Farina' after the Little Rascals character.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2010 8:11:43

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

That leaves the actual guitarists that use their actual name only Ramon Montoya, Rafael Riqueni, Juan Manuel Cañizares, Gerardo Nuñez, and Jeronimo Maya. Can't think of any others on my favorite lest.

Didn't you forget tomatito?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2010 11:39:28

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Arash)

quote:

if i should release a CD, my nickname will be paco de persia.

also i am working on a new palo: persianas

Yeah, that would surely satisfy some of the complexes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2010 11:51:28

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: flamenco nicknames (in reply to Arash)

quote:

just found out that someone from iran stole my idea already (with persianas)

Don't worry, it sounds funny in Spanish anyway (= 'blinds', on the window). But you could get back at Bahram by collaborating with gj to invent yet another new palo, called..... persianas venecianas.

(Hmmm...could be the theme for an album...)