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Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to X)
I used to play turkish music with my roomate, and we would mix in flamenco and rumbas to our show. This was a very cool idea when they first did it years ago, I was way into the idea. I felt the guy is very flamenco guitarwise, but the girl not at all, but that was the cool thing about the fusion. It seems this is their one and only strong number, at this point it has gotten pretty old. I hope the guitarist persues some serious flamenco work w/out the sister to be honest. But also he should stick with just guitar and sing for fun.
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to Ricardo)
I knew that you were into persian, but you never mentioned doing turkish stuff, Ricardo? Anyways, yes this song is "old", like from the end of 2007. But really its not their only strong number, they have two albums out. Just my thoughts on them, NOT trying to defend anything: The girl can sing bulerias, with her own voice and style. For me she has the necessary soniquete in doing this. The way she sings is not (always) turkish, and "purists" would say this has nothing to do with turkish singing! A friend of mine said: "Its neither turkish, nor flamenco". But nevermind him, he is a JM fan that doesnt like Paco, LoL! No really, i have nothing against him or anybody that says this. Each his own.
I like her intonation A LOT, but i think that is the same think you dislike with her? In case of this tangos ("Evlerinin önü...") the melody is taken from a turkish folk song, its based on phrygian orignially too. That and the reason that they can pull it off in a "flamenco-way" (compas) makes it fit so well. If they werent the high-class musicians they are in BOTH (!) fields, this fusion would just sound as crappy as many others i heard. Im sorry, but this is, so far, the most authentic fusion i have heard.
As i mentioned their albums, I uploaded many samples in the audio section long time ago. The second album contains more flamenco palos than the first, for example the mentioned buleria, and i like it more than the first. It was impossible to get outside Turkey, but now it looks achievable from here.
If Turkey wasnt so poor there would be more flamencos. Its just hard to get good guitars, concerts, flamenco material in general and tuition there (its changing because of internet though). Also trips to Spain are harder affordable. Folk music is something which is very alive in Turkey (although decreasing) and that mostly explains their success there. I see a connection between all folk musics, although flamenco is NOT ONLY folk imo, see also my last discussion with Pimientito.
Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to XXX)
Can you link to any thing you thing is good soniquete from her singing flamenco? Been a while and don't feel like searching, but what I remember searching years ago, some flamenco attempts by her were not very good, but willing to give another chance. But again, he is really good guitarist I feel.
I lived with turks for for like 4 years. I actually did a gig playing for Ege, if you know him. In spain there is a group of turks from ankara that went to sanlucar several times. One of my best friends lives in istanbul, and also the turk I used to live with is back and forth. I know more or less what the scene has going on interms of flamenco.
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to Ricardo)
Sounds cool, youre probably much more in touch with the scene there than me! Last time i was in turkey 2007, wanted to meet the Ankara flamenco scene, but as a friend told me they were in Spain when i was there . Hopefully this summer...
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to Ricardo)
Oh, hey, Ricardo,
Of course she's no Carmen Salazar yet. She's young, inexperienced, and never had the advantage of living in Spain like her brother. It'll take time, support, and nurturing from guys like us.
Here she is jamming in Spanish:
I think you'll agree that at least (1) she's trying, (2) she's not afraid to let it all hang out, and (3) she's got pretty good instincts.
Plus she's a lot easier on the eyes than you and me (or, at least me B^D )!
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to X)
Sorry, but i think you guys don't get it.
If she would sing flamenco, then she would be never as good as the hundreds of other spanish cantaoras.
The nice and special thing about this fusion is that the rythm / guitar is Flamenco , but the singing is turkish (and NOT flamenco) ! thats the thing which made this piece very nice IMO. The idea was not to sing flamenco (with turkish language), but sing Turkish with flamenco compas (tangos, etc.)
IMO she should focus on TURKISH singing and give up practicing singing flamenco (which is not her strength).
The same idea would be nice with persian singing. The persian singers should NOT try to practice and copy spanish Cantaors and Cantaoras (they would never be as good as them) , but instead make nice fusion of persian singing + flamenco compas and rythm.
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to Arash)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash The idea was not to sing flamenco (with turkish language), but sing Turkish with flamenco compas (tangos, etc.)
(btw Ricardo told me his opinion via PM.) Thats not so easy to distinguish Arash coz part of why flamenco singing is flamenco is compas, no? The other parts could be "tricks" and tone and certain melodies or a certain WAY to "melody"/melodize (LoL) something. For me the bulerias singing had a clear compas in it, resolvings were all in compas. Thats flamenco to me (what else?). The weak points were the melody or tone, thats the unflamenco part, or the parts that need work. In the end it matched my tastes so i still think its good, even if not 100% puro (i mean those flamenco singing attempts). The Tangos is a different case coz thats an old turkish song ("more fusion" as such, and i agree thats part of the reason why its nice) and not their own composition/not a flamenco attempt anyway. Although its NOT solely turkish singing either, more her interpretation of it.
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to XXX)
well, yes i was talking about this Tangos.
she could sing this solo (without guitar and rythm) and probably no one would have said : this is flamenco (even if she would sing to the Tangos rythm in her mind!).
but add guitar and rythm, and you have the perfect FUSION of flamenco (tangos) and turkish singing.
maybe it is a special case (because of the tangos rythm).
i still have to check the other tracks and your other post. i was just reading this thread.
the point is, i have never heard someone from this area (turkey, iran, etc.) singing pure flamenco (with spanish language or own language) which sounded good. But i have heard some people, making some FUSION (their own style of singing with distinctive characteristics + their own language) and THAT sounded good.
RE: Oyku & Berk Gurman tango subtitled (in reply to X)
I don't care if this is Flamenco or not, I like it, I think its great music and competently performed...and the fact that she has a very nice pair of lungs doesn't incommode me neither
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But also he should stick with just guitar and sing for fun. 
. Hopefully this summer... 
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